9/11, Redeux

[leadshoes]

17th Anniversary of the 9/11 attacks

Susan Mackay was a VP for TJ Maxx. This summer she would have become a grandmother, as her son and daughter-in-law had twin boys.

My thoughts are with my old goalie buddy Glenn, who lost his father, Richard Morgan, who actually left his home in NJ after the crash and reported to the Emergency Bunker under the WTC and was killed when they collapsed. Glen is in Guantanamo Bay to bear witness to a 9/11 Military Tribunal being held there (don't know why it has taken 17 years??)

I also remember John Ogonowski, the pilot of American Airline Flight 11, whose farm is down the road from my house.

"Ace" Bailey and Mark Bavis, LA Kings scouts, both of whom I watched play hockey numerous times over the years with the Boston Bruins and BU, respectively.
http://www.bobsblitz.com/2012/10/the-st ... orial.html

Also, young David DiMeglio, from my hometown of Wakefield.

All 2996 victims of Islamic Terrorism and those who have succumbed to diseases since that dreadful day.

All the more tragic for the very real possibility that it was actually orchestrated by their own government and not Islamic terrorism. This is just my personal opinion, which I don't feel shows disrespect to these people and their loved ones.

[Mike from Boston]

17th Anniversary of the 9/11 attacks

Susan Mackay was a VP for TJ Maxx. This summer she would have become a grandmother, as her son and daughter-in-law had twin boys.

My thoughts are with my old goalie buddy Glenn, who lost his father, Richard Morgan, who actually left his home in NJ after the crash and reported to the Emergency Bunker under the WTC and was killed when they collapsed. Glen is in Guantanamo Bay to bear witness to a 9/11 Military Tribunal being held there (don't know why it has taken 17 years??)

I also remember John Ogonowski, the pilot of American Airline Flight 11, whose farm is down the road from my house.

"Ace" Bailey and Mark Bavis, LA Kings scouts, both of whom I watched play hockey numerous times over the years with the Boston Bruins and BU, respectively.
http://www.bobsblitz.com/2012/10/the-st ... orial.html

Also, young David DiMeglio, from my hometown of Wakefield.

All 2996 victims of Islamic Terrorism and those who have succumbed to diseases since that dreadful day.

All the more tragic for the very real possibility that it was actually orchestrated by their own government and not Islamic terrorism. This is just my personal opinion, which I don't feel shows disrespect to these people and their loved ones.

It is disrespectful and your personal opinion is wrong. PERIOD. You should seek professional help.

[leadshoes]

17th Anniversary of the 9/11 attacks

Susan Mackay was a VP for TJ Maxx. This summer she would have become a grandmother, as her son and daughter-in-law had twin boys.

My thoughts are with my old goalie buddy Glenn, who lost his father, Richard Morgan, who actually left his home in NJ after the crash and reported to the Emergency Bunker under the WTC and was killed when they collapsed. Glen is in Guantanamo Bay to bear witness to a 9/11 Military Tribunal being held there (don't know why it has taken 17 years??)

I also remember John Ogonowski, the pilot of American Airline Flight 11, whose farm is down the road from my house.

"Ace" Bailey and Mark Bavis, LA Kings scouts, both of whom I watched play hockey numerous times over the years with the Boston Bruins and BU, respectively.
http://www.bobsblitz.com/2012/10/the-st ... orial.html

Also, young David DiMeglio, from my hometown of Wakefield.

All 2996 victims of Islamic Terrorism and those who have succumbed to diseases since that dreadful day.

All the more tragic for the very real possibility that it was actually orchestrated by their own government and not Islamic terrorism. This is just my personal opinion, which I don't feel shows disrespect to these people and their loved ones.

It is disrespectful and your personal opinion is wrong. PERIOD. You should seek professional help.

It is not, it's just being frank. And I believe that people have the right to their own opinions enough that I never tell anyone they should seek professional help. If you'd just left it at the 2996 victims, minus the "of Islamic terrorism," that would have sufficed. You DON'T KNOW for a fact they were victims of Islamic terrorism, you just believe the official story you were spoonfed by the media. I don't need to get into it here because I trust you can do your own research if you feel so inclined, but I really hate the direction this event sent the world into, and things were already bad before it happened. I'll leave it at that, and I don't care what you think.

[Mike from Boston]

ISLAMIC TERRORISM. END OF STORY.

[Low D]

Leadshoes, while you are of course perfectly entitled to your personal opinions, maybe you want to start a conspiracy thread, instead of flaming out this thread (and Philip's). For the record, i don't buy the official story on 9/11 myself, but i don't feel the need to use an R.I.P. thread to carry out the debate. Have a bit of class - at the end of the day that's all anyone really has asked of you.

The rest of us, DzM has reminded us there is a feature on these fora to "block user" if there is anybody whose posts are consistently offensive / annoying / whatever to us.

But, to be fair, even if Islamic terrorists are, at the end of the day, solely responsible for the 9/11 attacks, it's hardly the "end of the story". If we honour & mourn the civilian deaths of 9/11, it is appropriate on the anniversary of those 2996 deaths (or a couple weeks after, anyway), to also take a moment to mourn the 3,557 NATO coalition soldiers who have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, along with the more than 25,000 Afghan soldiers and police (that was just in 2012-16), and an estimated 31,500 civilians since 2001. A further 22,000 civilian deaths attributed to the war on terror have occurred in Pakistan in that time as well. In Iraq, there have been 2,866 Allied military deaths, and a civilian death toll variously estimated between 182,000 and 204,000.

(Nobody seems to count Taliban, Al Qaeda & ISIS deaths, although one US Military source estimates 60-70 thousand killed in Iraq & Syria alone).

No civilian should have to die because of the actions and decisions of leaders, militaries, terrorists, religious extremists or demagogues of any stripe - but they've been dying in greater proportions in every conflict through the decades. The best way we can honour the dead is to protect the living. This "war on terror" has been going on 11 years longer than WWII, it's time for peace.

[Mike from Boston]

I will, for the sake of the Forum stand down.

Low D, while I frequently disagree with you, you present your side in a very respectful manner.

I don't think any one knows the true facts. My take on the US Government's involvement is that they failed to prevent the attacks. I don't think anyone on this forum is qualified to speak about this tragic event. I do feel, I have a bit of an upper hand, having spoken to my friend Glen, who lost his Dad, who has attended Congressional Hearings and as mentioned, is at GITMO in Cuba this month and to Jim Ogonowski, a neighbor whose brother Capt. John Ogonowski, was pilot of American Airlines Flight 11-the first plane to hit the World Trade Center. A member of my Patriots tailgate crew was there that day-at WTC Marriott and told us his story of that day-he witnessed 23 people jump to their deaths.

[leadshoes]

Leadshoes, while you are of course perfectly entitled to your personal opinions, maybe you want to start a conspiracy thread, instead of flaming out this thread (and Philip's). For the record, i don't buy the official story on 9/11 myself, but i don't feel the need to use an R.I.P. thread to carry out the debate. Have a bit of class - at the end of the day that's all anyone really has asked of you.

The rest of us, DzM has reminded us there is a feature on these fora to "block user" if there is anybody whose posts are consistently offensive / annoying / whatever to us.

But, to be fair, even if Islamic terrorists are, at the end of the day, solely responsible for the 9/11 attacks, it's hardly the "end of the story". If we honour & mourn the civilian deaths of 9/11, it is appropriate on the anniversary of those 2996 deaths (or a couple weeks after, anyway), to also take a moment to mourn the 3,557 NATO coalition soldiers who have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, along with the more than 25,000 Afghan soldiers and police (that was just in 2012-16), and an estimated 31,500 civilians since 2001. A further 22,000 civilian deaths attributed to the war on terror have occurred in Pakistan in that time as well. In Iraq, there have been 2,866 Allied military deaths, and a civilian death toll variously estimated between 182,000 and 204,000.

(Nobody seems to count Taliban, Al Qaeda & ISIS deaths, although one US Military source estimates 60-70 thousand killed in Iraq & Syria alone).

No civilian should have to die because of the actions and decisions of leaders, militaries, terrorists, religious extremists or demagogues of any stripe - but they've been dying in greater proportions in every conflict through the decades. The best way we can honour the dead is to protect the living. This "war on terror" has been going on 11 years longer than WWII, it's time for peace.

I didn't feel I was flaming anyone at all, just putting a thought out there to consider, since simply blaming the event wholesale on Islamic terrorism has caused untold harm, as you've just shown there yourself.

You said "The best way we can honour the dead is to protect the living." You have to admit that we can't do this if we're not aware of how these events really transpire, and if we don't realize who the ones behind it all are who benefit. There's really no need for war to ever happen at all, but war happens because it is a highly profitable industry, and as long as the world is blinded to that fact we won't ever be able to "protect the living."

And I don't think this only belongs in a conspiracy thread because the idea of a "conspiracy theory" was invented by the conspirators (the CIA) to deride and dismiss anyone who questions the official narratives put forth by them to cover up their crimes. It all started because 80% of the US population questioned the official findings of the Warren Commission regarding the assassination of JFK. What they want everyone to dismiss as conspiracy theories should really be a part of everyday critical thinking if we want to progress as a species and actually reach that "time of peace" you speak of.

[Wayne Kerr]

The 9/11 debate,wow! that was an intense debate,is there a mediator in the house?While reading the different views,i just heard that Chas Hodges of Chas and Dave fame has died.Chas was also a member of 70's band Head Hands & Feet and was a top session musician,worked a lot with Joe Meek.So,we go from 9/11 to the late Chas Hodges,who would have thought.

[leadshoes]

9/11 discussion peeled off to here

Well, it looks like Chas Hodges of Chas and Dave got shortchanged out of his tribute by your splitting this off into a 9/11 thread. So here's to Chas.

In any case, I had no intention of saying any more than I already did and don't think it warranted its own thread. People comment on the tributes here all the time, I just hit a particular nerve with someone. Anyway, it's sad to get a glimpse into why this world is in the awful state it's in, and now glancing into that politics corner, it's even more glaringly obvious that people don't want to see beyond what they're told by the establishment media. It doesn't seem long before the world self-destructs from the overwhelming cognitive dissonance, and maybe deservedly so.

[left]

Hey, thanks. An injection of positive thinking is what I needed!

[leadshoes]

Hey, thanks. An injection of positive thinking is what I needed!

You're welcome. And just remember, death is not the end.

[leadshoes]

Like I said before, I don't really have anything more to add to a "9/11 redux" personally, but here is some food for thought from folks much smarter than I:

"Only puny secrets need protection. Big discoveries are protected by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan

"How can you have a war on terrorism when war itself is terrorism?" - Howard Zinn

"Everyone’s worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there’s really an easy way: Stop participating in it." - Noam Chomsky

[DzM]

Thank goodness! We're already down to t-shirt and bumper-sticker wisdom. Please don't forget the dorm room classics like:

If you're not angry then you're not paying attention.

The tree of liberty must sometimes be watered with the blood of patriots.

Action, not words.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.

9/11 was an inside job

Pearl Harbor was an inside job

The CIA killed Kennedy

Blood and Soil

All of these out-of-context pithy phrases are available in the gift shop. Enjoy.

[leadshoes]

Thank goodness! We're already down to t-shirt and bumper-sticker wisdom. Please don't forget the dorm room classics like:

If you're not angry then you're not paying attention.

The tree of liberty must sometimes be watered with the blood of patriots.

Action, not words.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.

9/11 was an inside job

Pearl Harbor was an inside job

The CIA killed Kennedy

Blood and Soil

All of these out-of-context pithy phrases are available in the gift shop. Enjoy.

Oh for fuck's sake. Sure, what YOU tossed out there are a bunch of empty bumper sticker slogans minus any wisdom.

If you don't see anything out of the ordinary to think about in the words I quoted, then that's sad but it doesn't surprise me. It's just another indication of the sorry state the world is in. When is everyone going to realize we are constantly being fed lies and there's never any need for wars and blanket discrimination based on religion, race, anything except for the out and out evil that is hiding in plain view and has insidiously burrowed its way into everything possible. Like I said before, the world will probably self-destruct from the cognitive dissonance, and that can only be good because this world needs a reboot in a hurry.

[leadshoes]

Okay, here you go, a good overview of reasons why the official story for 9/11 doesn't make sense and how it was used to change the US and world for the worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aXVzLMVdWM