Those wacky Rhino Brothers have us boxed in again!!

[dsweeney]

Again, cheers for clearing that up.I only really know Dr. John from " The last waltz ", his " Such a night " being one of my favourite tracks on it. From " Peace and love " I would say " Gridlock " and " Cottonfields " have Americana roots and feels to them.Along with the " swampy " feel to " USA". Of course as well, just occurring to me, it has the " My eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord " line to it, which is from some old American spiritual or hymn, we would call it.

[James]

It has the " My eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord " line to it, which is from some old American spiritual or hymn, we would call it.

Battle Hymn of the Republic. A great song.

[dsweeney]

Yep, used as one part of Elvis's " American trilogy ", I think.
Just another thought on " The wire ". The show's creator, David Simon, is a huge Pogues fan and sprinkled their music throughout the series. His latest work is called " Treme " and is set in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina. It probably won't air over here for a while yet but it's on HBO in the States. What are the chances " USA " will pop up somewhere in it ?

" She left me drunk...in New Orleans ".

[dsweeney]

Different tack here but what harm. Phil, I recently got the track " Train of love " from the " Peace and love " extras. I assumed it was a b-side from one of the singles from the album but it doesn't appear to be. Where is it from ? It doesn't really sound like an out-take from " P & L " but I suppose it must be.

[philipchevron]

I think it's the b side of one of the P&L singles - "Misty Morning Albert Bridge" maybe? It's certainly from those sessions.

[DzM]

I believe it's from the 3" CD single of Misty Morning Albert Bridge, WEA YZ407CD (CD3).

[dsweeney]

Absolutely spot on, top of the class. You win a cookie. It's the extra track on the CD single of " Misty, morning....". It has a very different feel to it for me from the rest of " P& L". It 's definitely one of those Lillywhite spoke of where he used multiple vocals from the band to bolster Shane's by then very weak vocal. Hard to tell but is Shane even in there ? Certainly you're in there Phil. And Spider.Some of the early lines do have Shane as well I think but he seems to drop out from the track later on. Indicative of the state of affairs at the time, I suppose.
Sticking with the Americana theme on " P& l " , " Train..." has a country / cajun feel to it I think. Juke boxes playing sad old songs, lonesome whistles, midnight trains, that kind of thing. A good track all round.

[philipchevron]

Absolutely spot on, top of the class. You win a cookie. It's the extra track on the CD single of " Misty, morning....". It has a very different feel to it for me from the rest of " P& L". It 's definitely one of those Lillywhite spoke of where he used multiple vocals from the band to bolster Shane's by then very weak vocal. Hard to tell but is Shane even in there ? Certainly you're in there Phil. And Spider.Some of the early lines do have Shane as well I think but he seems to drop out from the track later on. Indicative of the state of affairs at the time, I suppose.
Sticking with the Americana theme on " P& l " , " Train..." has a country / cajun feel to it I think. Juke boxes playing sad old songs, lonesome whistles, midnight trains, that kind of thing. A good track all round.

I haven't heard it in years but I seem to remember Jem being lead vocalist on "Train Of Love". Reason it sticks in mind is that one of the network news shows filmed us at an afternoon soundcheck - at Wembley, I think - so they could have some fresh footage to accompany their news item about the IBA's banning of "Birmingham Six". The idea was the film would start, then suddenly screech to a halt, indicating State censorship. So there, on the 6pm News, was The Pogues in full flight, complete with lead vocalist Country Jem Finer and a mike stand covered in Christmas tinsel, caught in the act of being censored by Maggie Thatcher's State. Stalin was never half as much fun.

[cagliostro]

I originally heard "Train Of Love" on a small mini CD (thankfully never see those around anymore) that came into the radio station I worked with at the time. The damn thing played the beginning of the song just fine, but by the middle, it skipped very obnoxiously. I was very happy to finally pick up the reissue of Peace & Love to finally be able to hear the song in its entirety.

[dsweeney]

I wonder was the ban on " Birmingham six " ever lifted since the release and vindication of the men ? I' m assuming not.
A classic track, it joins the likes of " God save the queen " and " Relax" being banned from the airwaves. As for Thatcher Phil, don't forget this is someone who referred to Nelson Mandela as a terrorist. When you piss certain people off you're doing something right! Did ye ever consider releasing it as a single when the six were finally freed ?
On a different tack but getting back to " P& L ". I always assumed, for some unknown reason, that the air of " London you're a lady " was that of " Limerick, you're my lady ", without ever really thinking about it. I now think it most certainly isn't. Different tunes entirely. Do you know Phil if it's based on something else or is it an origiinal tune from Shane ?
I was fascinated with your piece about the " O'carolan " type coda to the song. Is this a separate part or an extension to the main body of the song ?

[Zuzana]

On a different tack but getting back to " P& L ". I always assumed, for some unknown reason, that the air of " London you're a lady " was that of " Limerick, you're my lady ", without ever really thinking about it. I now think it most certainly isn't. Different tunes entirely. Do you know Phil if it's based on something else or is it an origiinal tune from Shane ?

It borrows the melody from a harp tune called Fanny Power (or Planxty Fanny Poer) by O'Carolan. You can listen to a midi of Fanny Power here.

[philipchevron]

The entire purpose of "Birmingham Six" song was to raise a stink and play our small part in reversing an historic miscarriage of justice. Once the Six (and the G4) had their convictions overturned, the song became surplus to requirements. I'm not sure we ever played it again, much less released it as a single.

On the airwaves ban, Gareth Peirce, the civil rights lawyer and counsel for some of the men (memorably played by Emma Thompson in the Jim Sheridan movie In The Name Of the Father) phoned me up to try to persuade us to take a case against the IBA's ban, at which she would represent the Pogues pro-bono. I discussed it with the others and we felt, unanimously, that anything which drew attention to us was likely to take the spotlight away from the Six and the Four, so we declined. Interestingly, Pearce did not agree, began something of a campaign to get us to change our mind and called me persistently for a short while. I understood that she felt the direct inclusion of the Pogues in the overall strategy would help, not hinder, the Six/Four campaigns but, well, I just disagreed with her. She was, and is, an amazing woman however.

[dsweeney]

Jesus !! " Streets../ Birmingham six" is one of the lost classics on IISFFGWG. The fact that the convictions were quashed and the men subsequently released just proves the validity of the song, surely ? I'm sure the Special AKA still play " Free Nelson Mandela " despite the fact he is a free man for about twenty years or so.
I think I read somewhere Terry had written an extra verse for " Streets..." which wasn't used. What a pity. The two tracks are strong enough to stand in their own right. Pure, undiluted Poguetry that Lillywhite didn't manage to fuck up in the studio. I take it there isn't any other version of it or it would have been on the box set ?

[dsweeney]

Just a few thoughts on the IBA ban on the track Phil. Ridiculous as it was, do you know by any chance exactly what it was in the song they found worthy of being banned ? I mean " political " songs go back to Woodie Guthrie and beyond you know what I mean ? Off the top of my head I don't think there is any " foul language " in it to sully Britain's airwaves.
Also, there is the crazy situation whereby the song was and is freely available on the album so I ask again, what specifically did they deem unfit for airplay ? If there was some " legal difficulties" inherent in the track IISFFGWG would have been pulled from the shelves as soon as the great and the good became aware of it. But it wasn't. I can only assume somebody in Thatcher's government took offence to a bunch of punks questioning the integrity of the British legal system and God forbid the British public got to hear about it ! Scary if you think about.

[philipchevron]

Just a few thoughts on the IBA ban on the track Phil. Ridiculous as it was, do you know by any chance exactly what it was in the song they found worthy of being banned ? I mean " political " songs go back to Woodie Guthrie and beyond you know what I mean ? Off the top of my head I don't think there is any " foul language " in it to sully Britain's airwaves.
Also, there is the crazy situation whereby the song was and is freely available on the album so I ask again, what specifically did they deem unfit for airplay ? If there was some " legal difficulties" inherent in the track IISFFGWG would have been pulled from the shelves as soon as the great and the good became aware of it. But it wasn't. I can only assume somebody in Thatcher's government took offence to a bunch of punks questioning the integrity of the British legal system and God forbid the British public got to hear about it ! Scary if you think about.

The insiduous logic of the ban was not so much to censor the content as to stifle the voice of dissent itself. At the time, a number of actors made a comfortable if bizarre living by being the "voice of" Gerry Adams or Martin McGuiness or whomever on broadcast media - it was not the words that were proscribed but the so-called "oxygen of publicity" afforded the speaker. In this ludicrous Lewis Carroll view of the world, it was only a short step from silencing the rantings of legitimate and self-described enemies of the state to censoring mere protest songs.

The absurdity of this position was laid bare the night the "Birmingham Six" ban was enforced. The news shows ran a few silent or muffled seconds of "The Pogues playing their Birmingham Six song" [actually the Pogues playing "Train of Love" with Jem Finer at centre mike!] and then abruptly stopped the film. Newsreaders noted that "We can't show you the song, but we can bring you the words of the song", at which point an actor took over and enunciated the lyrics of "Birmingham Six" in clear and transparent English, setting out the case for these men being imprisoned merely for the crime of being "Irish in the wrong place and at the wrong time". Never before or since has a Shane MacGowan lyric been heard so intelligibly by the general public, or found to be so patently lacking in sedition.

I like to think that the way the news organisations highlighted the self-defeating absurdity of this - comment would have been superfluous - hastened the end of this crazy ban, which was indeed repealed following a lengthy period in which Margaret Thatcher wiped the egg from her face.