Raise up, ye heroes!

[Gurrier]

So you do not have any problems, the place is friendly, sound is superb, strings pulling guys are great. All you do here is trying to shake the venue up a bit, eh?
That's why there is a security usually, to help such little helpers.

Not really mate. Just speaking the truth and pointing out the bleedingly obvious

[TheIrishRover]

Yeah yeah. I'm a great big giant fucking hypocrite. You found me out. You're so brave and clever.

Yet here you are. Same question to you as was put to Gurrier - If you hate it here so much, why not go somewhere else? Perhaps you and Gurrier can make the most-bestest-awesomest forum ever. Please, put Medusa out of business.

I don't "hate it here so much". I enjoy it, and that's why I care, because it's something I like and want to stay afloat. If I hated it here, I'd just leave. But I don't hate it here; I care about it, and that's why I give my opinions, because I don't want something that I like to turn into something that I hate. I want Medusa to be more how it was years ago. I want progress, not just to turn a blind eye and leave, and I want this because I like Medusa.

Saying I hate it here is akin to accusing all of the great reformers in history of being unpatriotic because they went against the status quo. However, the very reason they went against the status quo was because they were patriotic and wanted the best for their country. I like Medusa and want the best for it, that's why I give my opinion on what needs to be fixed for it to stay something enjoyable.

Another question? Why don´t you help them by banning them?

These two guys brought trouble, and bring trouble. And I dare to say, they will bring trouble. Are they very helpful to the community? Doubtfully. Yet they poison the air - and obviously, they´re not going to leave (because if there was this chance, they´d done so earlier).

Banning is not killing people, just kicking out fools...

I've contributed a lot here at this forum, so don't you take some moral high horse and say that you're such a great example of how people should "contribute". You know what poisons the air? Your Soviet mindset. Yes, ban all enemies of the police state. Yes, put them in the gulags. You know what, man? You're just like the fucking Communists who got the academics to help with their little revolution and then said the academics were parasites and contributed nothing.

[TheIrishRover]

Here's the problem I see with Medusa. There are no serious discussions anymore. Why? Because serious discussions are either labeled as not being PC and deleted, split up and moved into ten different threads (which does have the effect of killing most discussions) and because people are afraid of pissing off the mods.

So what if a discussion gets a bit off topic. Chances are, it got off topic in a logical way of circumrelation and, if one looks at the chain of events that got it off topic, it's obvious how it really is on topic.

There needs to be less of this overly-moderatedness. That's the downfall of Medusa. People can't discuss things anymore. Sure, some things might be a bit offensive to some, well just don't read it. There's no need to ruin the fun of those who do enjoy it when the people who're offended can simply not look at it. But really, a bit of good harmless fun is nothing to ban, which is what's happening here.

I mean, if you look at what this forum has become, it's become mostly a log of activities people are doing, what they're reading, what they're listening to, what movie they watched, etc. There used to be serious content, but now it's like a fucking logbook of what's happening.

There, that's my constructive criticism. Take it or leave it, but it's constructive.

[Zuzana]

I want Medusa to be more how it was years ago.

Medusa has been moderated since the end of 2004 (and even before that, it was moderated at least by DzM). Moving threads, splitting threads, dealing with shit-stirrers – all that has been going on for years. So what do you compare with – what is "how it was years ago"? (Apart from an idealized past.)

I've contributed a lot here at this forum, so don't you take some moral high horse and say that you're such a great example of how people should "contribute".

Rambling on about great reformers and patriots is not taking "some moral high horse"?

There are no serious discussions anymore. Why? Because serious discussions are either labeled as not being PC and deleted, split up and moved into ten different threads (which does have the effect of killing most discussions) and because people are afraid of pissing off the mods.

Could you give at least some concrete examples of "serious" discussions that were split up and moved into ten different threads or deleted?

[Pyro]

TheIrishRover: Let me tell you one thing - I do a part time job as Bulletin Board "expert" - I consult stuff and I have to see a lot of phpBB. Medusa is probably the closest one to anarchistical moderation (i.e. very slight). And in comparison, it brings problems. How come people can´t discuss serious things? Show me some deep, deep topic, which was destroyed by mods. When someone´s topics get destroyed, he moans about it, and he´s banned for that - that is over-moderation.

I agree that serious discussions are not that numerous these days, that´s a problem.

That soviet mindset bollocks...are you serious? I'm not trying to say that Stalin was a good daddy and russian commies were friends, but things are not black and white, you know? If you come to China, for example, and stay there and watch, you´ll see, that this western propaganda we´re laughing at, is in fact quite similar to "capitalistic" propaganda. We say communists are bad because they oppress people and take their freedom - that´s probably right (of course, philosophically, we can´t be sure that freedom is a good thing, but we can state it, at least). But realize, that right wing politics and "free market" bring unhappiness to those, who are used and manipulated, and those, who manipulate them, are they happy? Let me tell you this - they´re not. Because of my father, I meet many "top class" people, and they´re all the time talking about work, about how they don´t have no time, how life sucks etc. Capitalism sadly makes souls of people rot and twist.

You have formal and informal freedom. Here, formally, you´re allowed to jump out of the window. But in reality, you won´t do it for it´s own sake. In medieval times, it was formally forbidden to jump out of the window. Meaning, now, you have formally the option to do so, but you don´t have the informal freedom (probably because of self-preservation instinct).

SSSR took you formal freedom. But "Western block" takes you informal freedom - officially, it´s not as bad, and many don´t realize it, but the result is sometimes similar. Of course, people here are not getting locked and shot because of what they say, but again - I'm not protecting SSSR

That informal freedom theft is not so obvious, but if you look at older "capitalistic" era, as for example times, which made communism happen - people were enslaved! Yet formally, they were free!

[soulfinger]

but now it's like a fucking logbook

Must've missed that one.

Do you take yourself so seriously in real life or just on here? *shuffles off to find threads about listening to vegemite and eating Depot Blues by Charlie Lincoln..........

[DzM]

Here's the problem I see with Medusa. There are no serious discussions anymore. Why? Because serious discussions are either labeled as not being PC and deleted, split up and moved into ten different threads (which does have the effect of killing most discussions) and because people are afraid of pissing off the mods.

That's one take on it. In my experience a lot of the people I enjoy spending time with here have gone elsewhere citing a lack of Pogues content, an abusive environment, and arguments that never end. People that I enjoy spending time with have left because I HAVEN'T cracked down harder on all this rubbish. People that have been members here for years have left due to harassment that HASN'T been immediately dealt with out of a desire to give everyone an opportunity to be treated fairly. People I like no longer come here because I've been too liberal in how I handle warnings and banning.

People are afraid of offending the moderators? Maybe I live in a bubble, but I haven't noticed any shyness among any participants here.

Also, I can't think of a single thread or topic that has been labeled "not PC" and shut down or deleted. I CAN think of a few where I have simply decided that I don't feel like paying to maintain such a thread. Medusa isn't free. I pay real money and real time to keep it running, and this gives me a right to, at times, say "I don't want to host this conversation." It's the same right I have to tell guests as my parties not to fight on my porch or shit in my garden.

So what if a discussion gets a bit off topic. Chances are, it got off topic in a logical way of circumrelation and, if one looks at the chain of events that got it off topic, it's obvious how it really is on topic.

No argument from me. All the Janitors use their best judgment, and we don't have a hive mind. We collectively try to enforce the guidelines that are at viewtopic.php?f=30&t=430 We individually decide how to best do it.

You may also recall that you had offered to be a moderator long ago: viewtopic.php?p=3146#p3146

As far as I'm concerned nothing has changed in the way things get moderated between 2004 and today. Please tell me, what has changed from then to now that has made you change your mind?

There needs to be less of this overly-moderatedness. That's the downfall of Medusa. People can't discuss things anymore. Sure, some things might be a bit offensive to some, well just don't read it.

I think there's an actually constructive discussion to be had on this.

The splitting and merging that happens is an attempt to make the numerous conversations around here accessible and approachable to the largest number of people. There is a core group of users that come here on a regular basis, that have their favorite topics, and follow their evolutions. The other 90% of our visitors are new, or infrequent visitors. Their experience is often "Ooo! A conversation about Fluffy Bunnies! Yay! *click to end* What the fuck? Why are they talking about printers?" The other reason we make an attempt to keep things in related conversations is for archival purposes; a lot of interesting stuff gets posted to forum topics, and retrieving it in the future is vastly helped by having it actually be organized. Stream-of-consciousness rambling does not lend itself to future reference or comprehension.

So - what do you want to see (and by you, I mean the greater You, the users of these fora)?

I mean, if you look at what this forum has become, it's become mostly a log of activities people are doing, what they're reading, what they're listening to, what movie they watched, etc. There used to be serious content, but now it's like a fucking logbook of what's happening.

When I started these fora I had hoped that there would be a small but enthusiastic community of fans that gave news updates on the various band-member's solo projects, news on The Pogues, actual discussion of the music (ala poguetry.com - some of my fondest email conversations have been with Fran debating the background of a lyric). It has been interesting to see how the community of users has chosen to use the resource I provide, but it's certainly not what I had in mind.

So go create "serious content." Start an interesting and intelligent conversation. Knock yourself out.

There, that's my constructive criticism. Take it or leave it, but it's constructive.

Actually, I appreciate it. THIS kind of feedback is useful.

[Pyro]

That's one take on it. In my experience a lot of the people I enjoy spending time with here have gone elsewhere citing a lack of Pogues content, an abusive environment, and arguments that never end. People that I enjoy spending time with have left because I HAVEN'T cracked down harder on all this rubbish. People that have been members here for years have left due to harassment that HASN'T been immediately dealt with out of a desire to give everyone an opportunity to be treated fairly. People I like no longer come here because I've been too liberal in how I handle warnings and banning.

Yes - I may not be one of those who you enjoy to spend time with, but at this stage, I´m pretty close to leaving too. In means of active members, sometimes I feel like "Track no.8 from Crock of gold" syndrome. I´m glad I met so many good people here, but many of them are gone.

[chinaski]

WTF is going on here?

you like stay? stay.

you like go? go already.

Until the day comes that this turns into a Co-Op where we pay dues and pay for Dzm's time....we accept his decisions.

SUCK IT UP.

He is our God here. He rules. No question.

Productive feedback is listened to and factored in. Unproductive shite is not. is this to complicated?

I don't get it. DzM friggin' RAWKS and so does this forum. I have learned more about music from strangers here that I have from any other....

[DzM]

Umm. Wow. Thanks Chinaski.

"Rawks" though? No, not so much. Nor God, really, now that I think of it.

[Clash Cadillac]

I have to second Chinaski's post.

DzM must have read my mind as I was just getting ready to post that my take on this site is that it is like DzM throwing a party and sending out an open invitation to all. Sure some people will show up that are out of hand and need to be asked politely to chill out or leave. I think that the Mods have bent over backward to make this a "great party" and frankly I can not believe how patient they have been with some of their "guests".

This "ME" attitude that I see more and more in today's society makes me sick and I have to wonder what ever happened to good old common courtesy.

I do enjoy following the serious topics that get discussed here with intelligence (thanks Philip and more than I care to list as I am afraid of leaving someone off the list). However, I also love the "log of activities" as I find it a great resource for expanding my music collection, enjoyment of literature and motion pictures. I live in a small town with few people that I find common ground with especially when it comes to music. Thanks to O'Blivion's "activity log" about his experience with Dr. Ralph Stanley I made the effort to check him out for myself which led me to explore additional music from the Appalachians through both documentaries and music collections. When you really study the history of early American "mountain music" you find that it can be traced right back to Ireland and is rooted in the same music that eventually led to the Pogues. There is a great documentary called "Bringing It All Back Home" for anyone who is interested.

I fear that DzM will get fed up with all the bullshit and pull the plug on this party. I hope this is not the case.

[Clash Cadillac]

Yes - I may not be one of those who you enjoy to spend time with, but at this stage, I´m pretty close to leaving too. In means of active members, sometimes I feel like "Track no.8 from Crock of gold" syndrome. I´m glad I met so many good people here, but many of them are gone.

Don't give up yet Pyro. This site needs more members like you. I have confidence that things will get better.

[chinaski]

Umm. Wow. Thanks Chinaski.

"Rawks" though? No, not so much. Nor God, really, now that I think of it.

always so modest. chicks dig that.


don't start thinking I am kissing your ass or anything there Boss. just calling it like I see it.

[IrishRover]

Gerald: ...You see, Kyle, we humans work as a society, and in order for a society to thrive, we need gods, and clods.
Kyle: Gods and clods?
Gerald: Yes. You see, I spent a lot of time going to law school, and I was able to go because I have a slightly higher intellect than others. But I still need people to pump my gas, and make my French fries, and fix my laundry machine when it breaks down.
Kyle: Oooohh, I see. Gods and clods!
...
My Final Solution
By Kyle Broflovski
My dad is the smartest guy in the whole wide world. He has taught me that all poor people are actually things called clods. I wanna live in a world of only gods, so my idea to make Ameica better is put all the poor people into camps. If we get rid of them, there will be nothing but rich people. And there won't be any hunger, poverty, or homeless people. 'Cause they'll all be dead. The end.

Medusan cloids & goids?

[DzM]

Gerald: ...You see, Kyle, we humans work as a society, and in order for a society to thrive, we need gods, and clods.
Kyle: Gods and clods?
Gerald: Yes. You see, I spent a lot of time going to law school, and I was able to go because I have a slightly higher intellect than others. But I still need people to pump my gas, and make my French fries, and fix my laundry machine when it breaks down.
Kyle: Oooohh, I see. Gods and clods!

Medusan clods & gods?

Umm. Yeah, OK.

In your example there are the Gods that live a life of luxury, and there are the Clods that serve them (pump gasoline, fix washer machines, etc). How does this map to Medusa, exactly? Are you saying that there is a group of people here that do all the work, and another group that enjoys the fruits of the other's labors? Please expand on your thesis.