Change in musical direction

**Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:23 pm**

I was always wondering if Shane was ever for or against The Pogues gradual departure from Irish music, to a more global prespective; especially concerning the whole musical atmosphere surrounding Hell's Ditch. Even in the recent Carol Clerk book, it makes clear that Shane had expressed dissatification with the musical direction The Pogues were heading, even though he himself got deeply involved with acid house rock during the Peace and Love era, and even wanting to record the classic Thailand Trilogy (Summer In Siam, Sayonara, and House of the Gods,) for Hell's Ditch. I myself find the Irish music as The Pogues at their peak, (i.e. Red Roses For Me, Rum, Sodomy and the Lash, If I Should Fall From Grace With God, and even most of Peace and Love) however, I'm rather fond of the diversification that was implemented on the later albums (i.e. Hell's Ditch and Waiting For Herb).

Iain

**Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:13 pm**

As I recall the fact the band started showcasing their obvious talent in a totally different direction ie not irish music wasn't what Shane wanted I believe this in some way led to him leaving the pogues maybe phil can clear this up?

**Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:23 pm**

I'm not sure he left so much as got kicked out, but I don't really know.

**Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:23 am**

I read somewhere, though I can't remember where , that it was, in fact, Shane who grew tired of the Irish music, and wanted to head off in new directions. How this then correlates with his career with The Popes, though, I have no idea.

**Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:15 pm**

Shane’s opinions from that period of time seem to be inconsistent at best. I think the band felt a natural need to diversify, both collectively and individually. He wasn’t always coming up with the goods anymore and couldn’t be relied upon. His more ‘diverse’ contributions were especially questionable. So when he ‘left’, it was easy for him to attack the bands direction. If he hadn’t ‘left’, it might not have bothered him so much.

I dunno.

Personally, I love the direction that Hells’ Ditch took. For me it was such a relief after Peace and Love.

**Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:12 pm**

Beisty wrote:Personally, I love the direction that Hells’ Ditch took. For me it was such a relief after Peace and Love.

That is exactly how I felt when Hell's Ditch came out- though Peace and Love has grown on me over the years.

**Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:40 pm**

hell's ditch is the most under rated album by far, it has its flaws, but is much much better than peace and love

**Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:22 pm**

idlebagger wrote:I read somewhere, though I can't remember where , that it was, in fact, Shane who grew tired of the Irish music, and wanted to head off in new directions. How this then correlates with his career with The Popes, though, I have no idea.

I think Shane's Snake record sounds less "Irish" than Waiting for Herb...

**Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:34 pm**

Eyeball_Kid wrote:
idlebagger wrote:I read somewhere, though I can't remember where , that it was, in fact, Shane who grew tired of the Irish music, and wanted to head off in new directions. How this then correlates with his career with The Popes, though, I have no idea.

I think Shane's Snake record sounds less "Irish" than Waiting for Herb...

In parts, agreed, but there are times where the music could almost have been taken from any of the Shane-era Pogues albums. The title track, Donegal Express, and Roddy McCorley all sound resoundingly "irish".

**Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:46 pm**

I think Shane's Snake record sounds less "Irish" than Waiting for Herb...

In parts, agreed, but there are times where the music could almost have been taken from any of the Shane-era Pogues albums. The title track, Donegal Express, and Roddy McCorley all sound resoundingly "irish".

and, um.... song with no name, rising of the moon, nancy whiskey, bring down the lamp, & aisling.

**Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:41 pm**

What a ridiculous comment "The Snake," was a return to form for MacGowan, with the entire album becoming very reminiscent of the first three Pogues albums. The only Irish sounding song of Waiting For Herb, was the Terry Wood's penned Haunting.

Iain

**Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:19 pm**

pogues24 wrote:.......the Terry Wood's penned Haunting.

Good song. Anybody else think that it was a "Gartloney Rats Mk II" though?

**Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:35 pm**

Possibly, a very good observation. I myself have always said that Gartloney Rats was a standout track on Peace and Love.

Iain

**Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:37 pm**

pogues24 wrote:What a ridiculous comment "The Snake," was a return to form for MacGowan, with the entire album becoming very reminiscent of the first three Pogues albums. The only Irish sounding song of Waiting For Herb, was the Terry Wood's penned Haunting.

Iain

I don't see the similarity between Church of the Holy Spook, That Woman's Got Me Drinking, I'll be Your Handbag, Mexican Funeral in Paris, and Victoria (so pretty much half of The Snake) and the first 3 Pogues albums at all. Shane's accusation that he wanted to continue playing "Irish" stuff and the rest of the Pogues didn't is, imho, utter bollocks.

**Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:48 pm**

Shane had already began to write Mexican Funeral In Paris and Victoria while he was still in the Pogues. These songs can be found on the infamous Falconer Demos (Mexcican Funeral In Paris early title was Lust For Vomit.) How songs like Her Father Didn't Like Me Anyway, Aisling, The Snake With Eyes of Garnet, and many others on the Snake still remind me of the days when he was in the Pogues.

Iain

Change in musical direction

Change in musical direction

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