The Medusa Fora

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:19 pm**

NewJerseyRich wrote:...
Admittedly I don't know much about the British right...

No, you don't know much about it. But not knowing much about things doesn't seem to stop you commenting on them. There are no "no-go" areas in British cities, whatever your chosen media may tell you. And as it happens, I've encountered far more aggression from right-wing skinheads than I ever have from Muslims.

Oh, and by the way, your attempt to use the deaths of innocent people to try to score cheap political points on an internet message board is pathetic, and deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:09 pm**

firehazard wrote:
NewJerseyRich wrote:...
Admittedly I don't know much about the British right...

Oh, and by the way, your attempt to use the deaths of innocent people to try to score cheap political points on an internet message board is pathetic, and deeply offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Yes yes of course I must love skin heads and Nazis. You lefties are always quite ridiculous.
Alert the media another lefty was "offended". Boo hoo hoo. Again if you think I'm offensive you're missing the point.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:37 pm**

NewJerseyRich wrote:Yes yes of course I must love skin heads and Nazis. You lefties are always quite ridiculous.
Alert the media another lefty was "offended". Boo hoo hoo. Again if you think I'm offensive you're missing the point.

He didn't call you a skinhead or a Nazi, Rich. He also did not say you are a Nazi or skinhead sympathizer. [edited out]

Here's what the Lefty Socialist Rag The New Work Times says is known at the moment:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/23/worl ... ck-uk.html

A 52-year-old man with a long criminal record who been had been investigated for ties to violent extremism carried out the deadly attack outside the British Parliament, the authorities announced on Thursday, as the Islamic State claimed responsibility for the assault.

Details about the man, Khalid Masood, a native of England who recently lived in the city of Birmingham, emerged as the government worked to project normalcy and calm nerves the day after the attack, which took the lives of a police officer, a British schoolteacher, an American tourist and a 75-year-old man, and injured more than 40 people.

“Yesterday, an act of terrorism tried to silence our democracy,” Prime Minister Theresa May told Parliament, addressing colleagues who a day earlier had been placed on lockdown. “We are not afraid, and our resolve will never waver in the face of terrorism.” She called the violence “an attack on free people everywhere.” [...]

Mr. Masood had a record of convictions, stretching from 1983 to 2003, for assault, weapons possession and violations of public order. But he was not the subject of any current investigation, and “there was no prior intelligence about his intent to mount a terrorist attack,” the London police said.

In remarks to lawmakers, before the police identified Mr. Masood, Mrs. May said the attacker was “a peripheral figure” whom MI5, Britain’s domestic counterintelligence agency, had examined for links to violent extremism. She added that he was not “part of the current intelligence picture,” that “there was no prior evidence of his intent or of the plot” and that “our working assumption is that the attacker was inspired by Islamist ideology.”[...]

For years, the police have been able to keep close tabs on potential Islamist radicals and terrorists, including Anjem Choudary, one of the most outspoken and effective hate preachers in Britain. But such efforts have become more challenging in recent years, experts say.

The Home Office made support for the Islamic State a criminal offense in June 2014, when Mrs. May was home secretary, and experts on radicalism said that drove many Islamist extremists underground. [...]

On Thursday morning, the Islamic State issued a statement on the messaging app Telegram, declaring that the attacker was a “soldier” who “carried out the operation in response to appeals” to fight Western powers involved in military operations in the Middle East. The terrorist group has called for attacks on Britain, and Mr. Masood’s assault was reminiscent of attacks in France and Germany that were carried out with vehicles. A man tried to drive into a crowd in Antwerp, Belgium, on Thursday but was stopped.

I note that they (the NYT, the English Government, etc) have not shied away from identifying the Muslim background of the attacker, in noting that ISIS has claimed responsibility (though they seem to claim responsibility for everything in an effort to make themselves seem bigger and scarier than they actually are), and yet have not actually inferred that ALL Muslims are to blame. Further I feel it's worth pointing out that this guy was born and raised in England and that no amount of border controls would have stopped him from carrying out this cowardly attack.

I feel compelled to point to something I wrote a while ago ( viewtopic.php?p=227108#p227108 ). Please note third in my list of examples:

All these different names for different flavors. I don't understand why we can't just use the catch-all "dickhead." As in:

"A member of the British Parliament was shot and stabbed by a complete dickhead. She is the first member of Parliament assassinated in more than 25 years."

"49 people were shot and killed, and several more remain in critical condition, by a complete dickhead. It is believed that this complete dickhead was acting of his own volition."

"A large group of total dickheads has made everything in the Middle-East even worse than it was before. To further their dickhead cause they are warping and twisting the teachings of a widely observed faith."

"A dickhead, with help from his dickhead friends, improvised a fuel-and-nitrate bomb in the back of a rental truck and subsequently exploded it in Oklahoma City killing and maiming hundreds of innocent people."

"Packs of dickheads have hacked another blogger to death in Bangladesh for the perceived crime of writing opinion pieces that argued for tolerance, non-secular governing, and general rationality."

"A highly opinionated dickhead who feels his opinions justify any action he takes has killed a medical professional who, as part of their job, performs legal abortions."

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:41 pm**

Wind your necks in. Nobody scores points when there's tragedy involved Rich...and FH there's streets in Oldham I probably wouldn't walk down alone sober...and others I wouldn't walk down if I was muslim.
Extremism of any kind sucks

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:50 pm**

Another attempted attack today in Antwerp, foiled by police. Not sure if it is Islamic terrorism, but the perp's name is Mohamed R. Attempted to ram his car into people, a car loaded with knives and a gas can.

Hey firehazard, how is commenting on the most pressing problem in the world today "pathetic and deeply offensive". Are you against people having opinions? Isn't that what this section of the forum is for? Maybe you have never known anyone who has been touched by Islamic Terrorism where you are. I am not here to defend NJR, he was the right to his opinions, and I don't know, being from New Jersey, maybe he knows people affected by it. Maybe you just don't believe in freedom of speech, especially if the person has a different opinion than yours.

No one here defends the other murderers that you or LowD mention. But the media and politicians, do label them as "hate crimes" or whatever term they use in your respective countries, but when it comes to Islamic Terrorism, they bend over backwards not to call it what it is! All I know is there has been thousands of murders from at least 9/11/01 onward, by these global Islamic Terrorist networks. They are so powerful that they have carved out a caliphate in Asia.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:08 pm**

NewJerseyRich wrote:
Admittedly I don't know much about the British right. I'd say how many right wing attacks vs. Muslim extremist attacks were there in London over the last decade? For that matter how many Left wing attacks? Are there neighborhoods of right wingers where you can't travel through? If you think the right is a larger problem then Muslim Extremism I can't help you.

You could have stopped after much.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:56 pm**

Mike from Boston wrote:No one here defends the other murderers that you or LowD mention. But the media and politicians, do label them as "hate crimes" or whatever term they use in your respective countries, but when it comes to Islamic Terrorism, they bend over backwards not to call it what it is! All I know is there has been thousands of murders from at least 9/11/01 onward, by these global Islamic Terrorist networks.

Actually, as has been pointed out several times in this thread, the opposite tends to be true with most politicians and media, here in Canada, there in the UK, and definitely in the US of A.

Again, the only point of this whole argument here was I thought it was in poor taste - and unwise in the racially charged atmosphere - to ascribe blame before a single authority had identified a perpetrator or a motive. And it was in poor taste to use the event to score political points (and it was weaselly of NJR to not admit that's what he was doing, we all know the whole "Say the words 'Islamic Extremist!' thing is a thing in your country). I mean, now that there's an allegation that yes buddy was motivated by wanting to be an Islamic Terrorist or what, I guess go ahead and gloat. When you're done praying, that is.

Allegations that mainstream American media in any way underplay or under-report terrorism, especially so-called Islamic Extremist terrorism, would be laughable, if it weren't for the fact that so many people are apparently able to believe it just because Trump said it, no matter what facts anybody presents. To attempt to call out the media because they quite properly and responsibly waited for information before ascribing motive is bizarre behavior i can only assume is motivated by an ideology and/or sectarianism so extreme it "trumps" (sorry) common sense, decency, and a desire for truth & accuracy in reporting.

Mike from Boston wrote:They are so powerful that they have carved out a caliphate in Asia.

Yes, but let's not forget the role the USA, Britain, France, Canada and others had in creating this situation after decades (centuries) of colonization, destabilization, regime propping & toppling. We created this beast. And the vast, vast majority of victims are Muslims living in Muslim countries, so let's stay sensitive to reality, and not over-victimize or decriminalize our countries.

That said, this whole thing of driving vehicles into crowds of civilians? A curse on the fucker who started this trend, and now any psychotic asshole - who may or may not have actual politics or faith, or may just be looking for an excuse - has now realized how easy it is to kill a bunch of folks in one go?! No need to even find a gun, make a bomb...

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:25 am**

Not going to go back and link all the comments so here goes...

The insinuation is "you're on the right so you favor Skinheads and Nazis" did I misjudge that? I don't think so.

Supposedly I jumped to conclusions by saying the obvious about the attacker. Though "news" reports claimed he was first a man of Asian decent, then misidentified him as a still jailed terrorist. If you haven't learned by now what these attacks are I feel sorry for you. The Mayor of London claimed "These attacks are part of urban living" Well I say &$#@ that, those are the words of another Neville Chamberlain.

Great guess Mike. I do know families affected by 9/11. Two from my town. One from my neighborhood, his children went to school with mine.

Soulfinger you're absolutely right.

Low D I disagree of course. Watching the BS of verbal gymnastics as the media reports a bearded man, an Asian, etc to avoid even the slightest speculation of what we all already know is preposterous. Especially when they don't use those same verbal gymnastics when creating fantasy stories about the New President. Then of course you end by blaming the victims. The people of London are somehow responsible because of decades (centuries) ago policies of their government.
The Islamic State publishes a magazine that gave ideas and instruction on how to kill the most people possible without a weapon. They described in detail how kill in major cities, markets, festivals etc. The new question is as we've seen in the past when they fear something they don't understand... will the Left now seek to abolish vehicles?

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:11 am**

NewJerseyRich wrote:Not going to go back and link all the comments so here goes...

The insinuation is "you're on the right so you favor Skinheads and Nazis" did I misjudge that? I don't think so.

Actually, what he said was this whole idea of "no-go" areas for non-Muslims is a myth, and that he has felt more frightened while walking around by skinheads than he ever has of "minorities". An experience i can identify with, especially if you replace "skinheads" with "drunk white sports fans".[/quote]

NewJerseyRich wrote:Low D I disagree of course. Watching the BS of verbal gymnastics as the media reports a bearded man, an Asian, etc to avoid even the slightest speculation of what we all already know is preposterous.

Yeah well they didn't know, clearly, is the point, and nor did you, so you should all have refrained from speculating or drawing conclusions. You said "avoid even the slightest speculation of what we all already know". What special knowledge did you have? Everybody THOUGHT they knew after the Mosque shooting in Quebec, and they were wrong. The haters were wrong, the media were wrong, and your White House was wrong, and it exasperated already tense relations.

[quote="NewJerseyRich" Then of course you end by blaming the victims. The people of London are somehow responsible because of decades (centuries) ago policies of their government.
The Islamic State publishes a magazine that gave ideas and instruction on how to kill the most people possible without a weapon. They described in detail how kill in major cities, markets, festivals etc. The new question is as we've seen in the past when they fear something they don't understand... will the Left now seek to abolish vehicles?[/quote]

Wow i don't know how to respond. No, i'm against us bombing "their" civilians and against "them" mowing down ours with cars. I don't think it's right for any state or extra-state body to ever target any civilian, don't care if it's ISIS, The US Army or the IRA. I'm pretty sure that sentiment read clear in what i wrote. Your being pretty intellectually desperate here. You're also being a total asshole.

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:39 am**

After having seen this happen dozens of times what are the odds this was terrorism vs. anything else? 90% 80%?
Not being an ass. I'm looking at your words. You said, "Let's not forget the role...insert country here... had in this... yada yada yada ... "We created this beast"

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:08 am**

NewJerseyRich wrote:After having seen this happen dozens of times what are the odds this was terrorism vs. anything else? 90% 80%?
Not being an ass. I'm looking at your words. You said, "Let's not forget the role...insert country here... had in this... yada yada yada ... "We created this beast"

That's not what i said, you keep arguing things i'm not saying. Sure it was most likely terrorism, but that doesn't mean it was "Islamic Extremists" (although i think we need to start having conversations about the difference between terrorism and mentally ill people who maybe say or think they are ISIS or whoever, but that's another discussion).

And saying "hey let's remember ALL the victims here", or "let's try and understand WHY this is happening, so maybe we can change the course of history" are NOT the same as victim blaming, again you are arguing something i'm not saying. I realize it's not as easy to discuss nuance as to shout slogans, but these are not really difficult concepts to wrap your head around, and i'm pretty sure i've been pretty clear, i'm sorry you keep hearing something different, although at this point i think that's on you.

So again, i'm against, say, blowing up folks running a marathon in Boston, yes, but i'm ALSO against blowing up an entire wedding party in Afghanistan. And i ALSO think we have to stop fucking up other countries so badly that people like ISIS are able to create their caliphate.

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:00 am**

I can see how things could be misconstrued. No one is for bombing civilians.

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:19 am**

NewJerseyRich wrote:I can see how things could be misconstrued. No one is for bombing civilians.

Well, the problem we're having, especially since WWII, is that is not the case.

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:31 am**

Lowest D wrote:
NewJerseyRich wrote:I can see how things could be misconstrued. No one is for bombing civilians.

Well, the problem we're having, especially since WWII, is that is not the case.

In the case of Islamic Terrorists I'd say we're looking at 900 years of a problem. Not just the last half of the 20th Century.

Posted: **Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:21 am**

Mike from Boston wrote:...
Hey firehazard, how is commenting on the most pressing problem in the world today "pathetic and deeply offensive"...

Mike, what really happened is that you started a thread in reaction to the attack in London, simply expressing your concern and asking people to stay safe. Which is perfectly reasonable. At the time, what was known about the events was largely speculation. NJR then jumps in to post a gratuitous comment about his latest obsession with what he calls the "liberal media". That seems to me to be offensively disrespectful to those who have actually been affected, and is just the kind of behaviour that one expects from trolls.

And there's really no point trying to engage in discussion with trolls.

But just this once, then I'm out of here:

NewJerseyRich wrote:...The Mayor of London claimed "These attacks are part of urban living" ...

So now you're just picking up a retweet posted by Donald Trump Jr of a quote taken out of context from an article published six months ago (so not a response by Mayor Sadiq Khan to this attack). If Trump Jr, or you, had bothered to read the article you might understand that it actually says something rather different. Well done.

Oh, and:

NewJerseyRich wrote:...In the case of Islamic Terrorists I'd say we're looking at 900 years of a problem...

So going back to the Second Crusade then? What a fine moment that was for Western civilisation.

The Medusa Fora

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