The Medusa Fora

firehazard wrote:And meanwhile we have turned ourselves into a meaner, more divided society, for no good reason. I don't think I can ever remember quite so much general ill-will and mistrust at large in this country. And I remember Thatcher.

Well then, maybe Brexit will lead to another songwriting renaissance. As Dick Gaughan said: "Say what you want about Margaret Thatcher, but a lot of great songs were written during her time in office."

I don't quite understand how caring for ones own country is "mean".

NewJerseyRich wrote:I don't quite understand how caring for ones own country is "mean".

An act of gratuitous self-harm, fuelled by xenophobia and creating division, hardly counts as caring for one's country.

Yes everyone who cares about their nation is xenophobic. More of the lib mantra.

Depending on the definition you give to "care" it may be, yes.

left wrote:Depending on the definition you give to "care" it may be, yes.

Or on a definition of "us" (or "our nation"). Scotland and N. Ireland clearly value the EU relationship, and may end up leaving the not-so-united kingdom. But many Brits have never seen the Scots or Irish as equal citizens. Or the immigrants from the colonies like India that made Britian wealthy in the first place.

But they should. England would, and will, be a lesser country without them.

NewJerseyRich wrote:Yes everyone who cares about their nation is xenophobic. More of the lib mantra.

Not at all. Typical of you with your right-wing blinkers to assume that's what I was saying, though. And why would you assume that only those who wanted Brexit cared for their country?

But the vote for Brexit was fuelled by xenophobia, whipped up by the right-wing media and encouraged by politicians who sold the electorate a whole lot of lies. When those same politicians found that, against their own expectations, they'd actually won the vote, they hadn't got a clue what to do next. And they still don't.

In any case, truly caring for one's nation probably wouldn't normally mean causing it an immense amount of economic and social damage, dividing its population, and encouraging an enormous upsurge in racial violence and hate crimes.

I mean, if you cared about your car, you probably wouldn't drive it off a cliff. But there you go.

Love for the country would have been never subjecting her to the shackles of the EU from the start. Once realising the situation it takes strength to correct and extricate ones self from the situation.
And Xenophobia is a wholly left term.

NewJerseyRich wrote:Love for the country would have been never subjecting her to the shackles of the EU from the start. Once realising the situation it takes strength to correct and extricate ones self from the situation.
And Xenophobia is a wholly left term.

Ooh, it's just like reading the Murdoch press. Strange, that.

Meanwhile, after approximately 70 years in which the "shackles" of the EU have helped ensure peace between the nations of Europe, and three days after the UK government finally got around to sending the Article 50 notice stating their intention to leave, a former leader of the Tory party started talking about the prospect of going to war with Spain. That all escalated more speedily than even a pinko commie liberal lefty like me had imagined.

I'd thought that the Brexiteers were intent on taking the country back to the 1930s. But maybe in reality they're aiming for the sixteenth century...

NewJerseyRich wrote:And Xenophobia is a wholly left term.

Get a grip.

NewJerseyRich wrote:And Xenophobia is a wholly left term.

That's funny, I've always assumed it was Latin.

firehazard wrote:

NewJerseyRich wrote:Love for the country would have been never subjecting her to the shackles of the EU from the start. Once realising the situation it takes strength to correct and extricate ones self from the situation.
And Xenophobia is a wholly left term.

Ooh, it's just like reading the Murdoch press. Strange, that.

Meanwhile, after approximately 70 years in which the "shackles" of the EU have helped ensure peace between the nations of Europe, and three days after the UK government finally got around to sending the Article 50 notice stating their intention to leave, a former leader of the Tory party started talking about the prospect of going to war with Spain. That all escalated more speedily than even a pinko commie liberal lefty like me had imagined.

I'd thought that the Brexiteers were intent on taking the country back to the 1930s. But maybe in reality they're aiming for the sixteenth century...

Well, to paraphrase Mike from Boston, NJR hasn't lived on a continent that suffered through two world-wars in less than 40 years, and centuries of needless wars before that. He may not really understand the desire of that continent to tie the prosperity of all the members-states together such that it no longer makes economic or cultural sense to wage stupid wars against each other.

I'm actually really curious how NJR's nationalistic view of things is able to reconcile all the benefits the states in the USofA get from being federated, but would also argue against the nations of Europe trying to federate together in the same way. Why should the USofA benefit from a single currency, free movement from state-to-state, a common set of trade rules, a shared defense, etc? Why should Europe (or Africa, or Asia, or Oceania, or any other continental region) not try to recognize the same benefits derived from the regional powers working together to establish common interests while delegating local authority to the sub-regions (whether they're called states, countries, areas of economic development, districts, or some other euphemism for "smaller state within a state")?

Low D wrote:

NewJerseyRich wrote:And Xenophobia is a wholly left term.

That's funny, I've always assumed it was Latin.

Greek, actually. Which probably makes it even more suspicious.

I'd thought that the Brexiteers were intent on taking the country back to the 1930s. But maybe in reality they're aiming for the sixteenth century...[/quote]
Well, to paraphrase Mike from Boston, NJR hasn't lived on a continent that suffered through two world-wars in less than 40 years, and centuries of needless wars before that. He may not really understand the desire of that continent to tie the prosperity of all the members-states together such that it no longer makes economic or cultural sense to wage stupid wars against each other.

Do I get residuals for this??

Mike from Boston wrote:

DzM wrote:

I'd thought that the Brexiteers were intent on taking the country back to the 1930s. But maybe in reality they're aiming for the sixteenth century...

Well, to paraphrase Mike from Boston, NJR hasn't lived on a continent that suffered through two world-wars in less than 40 years, and centuries of needless wars before that. He may not really understand the desire of that continent to tie the prosperity of all the members-states together such that it no longer makes economic or cultural sense to wage stupid wars against each other.

Do I get residuals for this??

You bet. 10% of all the filthy lucre I earn as a result of that post.