The Saga of Irish Rover And The Crew(censorshoipped edition)

[NewJerseyRich]

I note that Zuzana and I have been added to the list of Managerial types. I've updated Fake OIroishroiver's post to reflect the current "petition" text.

NewJerseyRich, what have you been doing wrong? Why aren't you on the list?

I like to think all those management seminars Gigantus Corporundum my previous employer sent me too was well worth the time and money.

[NewJerseyRich]

I note that Zuzana and I have been added to the list of Managerial types. I've updated Fake OIroishroiver's post to reflect the current "petition" text.

NewJerseyRich, what have you been doing wrong? Why aren't you on the list?

Because Jefe, NJR not only allows Irishrover to post his petition on the "Pogues" facebook page, he also tried in vain to cram IR's music/website/plight down everyone's throat a while back. (FFS)

Wow "allows" and "crams"....not the adjectives I would use but Ok KwaK I understand what you mean. I'd just like to try to explain myself a bit.....
Maybe because I like a good debate occasionally I come off with wrong intentions to some people. What I can say is that you all have known Irish much longer then me. Hell I spent more time reading his posts then any others when I first joined, trying to decipher them before I ever posted just to try and figure out what he was all about. Yes I see some of you have had it with his posting. Simply put I guess he hasn't gotten on my nerves or affected me as he has some others here on the raft.

As for Facebook, Rover posted a link to his petition. It has no comments, it makes no statements it's just a posted link. I didn't even notice it at first. it was up 9 hours before I came on the page that day. Unless I take it and post it out myself the only people that see it are those that stop by the page. That is why I often take pics or articles such as Jane has posted and resend them so that everyone that doesn't visit the page gets a chance to see them. No one has even replied to IR'S link.

As for craming him down everyones throat.... I in my heart of hearts feel bad for the guy. Call me a sucker, a fool, I still think he's got a good book, if his life is half as interesting as these 180+ pages. I posted a link to his page a month or more back when he was at a low point feeling maybe someone might see him as the page does have fans from HIS area of the world and they could assist him with information for his quest. Needless to say his page and his music wasn't taken to so well and after About 40-50 replies that was the end of it.

Seriously he posted a petition to remove managers? Is this something to really be concerned about? Is this anything other then him reacting to what he believes is unfair treatment by....whoever, the world for all I know? Not sure why he didn't mention me. Maybe I never banned or deleted him. Is he banned from the Medusa? If so I am unaware.
What baffles me is...Why isn't KwaK giving DzM a hard time since he posted the petition?
Dzm and Zuzana will you be removing yourselves anytime soon? I'm sorry if me leaving his link on the FB page really upset anyone, my appologies but I took it as attacking the perceived "establishment".

The only thing I have ever deleted from the FB page was some comments on Shane I found offensive by someone who was obviously not a fan. We don't have FAQ sections and censor patrol parties on 24/7. Unlike the Medusa where we interact on books and politics, TV, and movies, FB Is supposed to be about the music and informing fans of the bands happenings. If you want drama watch the telly....I really don't want to be involved in anything else there.

[DzM]

To be completely fair about this, I was just being facetious. Sort of a "well I guess you haven't really made it as a fan group administrator until you've made the Bad Guy list" nudge in the ribs. Nothing serious meant by it at all.

BTW he should have added my name I don't know whay he didn't. Is he banned from the Medusa? If so I am unaware. Why isn't KwaK giving DzM a hard time since he posted the petition?

I'm having trouble parsing this. Since I posted the petition?

Dzm and Zuzana will you be removing yourselves anytime soon? I'm sorry if my leaving his link upset anyone but I took as it was him attacking the perceived "establishment".

Remove ourselves? Well that depends, really. I mean, if we get a giant petition that says "hey, shut down that web site so that we won't be tempted to visit it," well, who are we to fight the hoi palloi? 'Course the hoi palloi COULD much more effectively communicate their desires by just creating other ways to meet and not visit the sites put forth by self-appointed managerial types on their ill-gotten thrones. In fact that would be extra more effective 'cause we'd still be paying for things.

Anyway - Blah blah blah. I still wish the guy the best of luck in getting to Ireland and making music his career. Good luck guy.

[jennylois]

Congratulations everyone. Now you can all sit back piously and laugh and sneer about Oirish, Jesus hasn't he gone too far this time! And while he's suffering and outcast you can hop over to post on the What I had For breakfast thread and have a laugh.

OIrish is a very intelligent person. He chose to express himself by using OI's in his writing and at first others seemed to not mind and even made light of it with OIrish so it was a fun thing but gradually over time people started to poke fun more and more until it was no longer just poking fun, but outright bullying, with requests that he be banned for it. Not for being a bastard, but for writing with OI's (and Ingrid you said on PRS that he wasn't banned for using OI's but for not doing as he was told, which was to write in proper English. Same thing FFS!). He has said time and again how it is with him, why he feels imprisoned, but I don't think you really hear him. YOu all pushed and pushed, each time it would blow over and OIrish would seem to have some support, then someone would bring the subject up again that his posts were hard to read and it would all start again. Not many have outright supported him. So many people say a few careful words but they are scared of not being in the IN crowd so they lay low when things get tough, don't speak up enough to support those in need. Well I'm not scared to fall out with you all. I have had repect for you all even though you are mostly faceless to me, I have no one on my foe list, but most of you don't have the decency to respect that some people are not the same as you are, that they don't express themselves the same way, that because of their own life experiences they go about their lives in a different way. It's nothing short of intolerance. Racism is intolerance and so is this. So all you out there who have gone on about racism, think about what you are contributing to here.

All the things that you are in a huff about, the nazi words and managerial stuff, has come about because of sheer frustration that he is not tolerated and accepted into this community. He is only tolerated if he complies with the rule that he must write properly, cos that is where this all started, let's not forget that. It started with the OIs nothing else. The outcasts here have always been the ones who are different and don't want to conform, like Gurrier - gone, TheIrishRover - gone, OIrish - gone, and others, and some will say that's great, but why is it great to have mediocrity with everyone licking each other's arses with smiley emoticons just to keep the peace? Why is it not good to have interesting conversation even if it treads on other's toes, to make us think and share ideas. No this is certainly not the forum for that kind of talk. I did think this was a place of essence as Oirish would say, but it's clearly not. When the double standards are allowed, like Craig's humdinger of a few weeks ago whjen he slagged OIrish and then turned around and did what he accused Oirish of doing and no one said anything. Jesus, he slandered me and no one said anything. None of you spoke up in my defence, but that's not unusual here. But so many can crawl out of the woodwork when it comes time to crucify OIrish, and that's acceptable. It's like being back at school. I have been criticised before for saying that there is an IN crowd here, and there really is, because some of you have met and so have a bond, and even if one of you said something that the other didn't agree on, you wouldn't come out all guns blazing, you would sugar your comments with a smiley to make it palatable and not hurt the other's feelings. But with some others, we get slagged because there is no bond there no matter how long we have been around, so it's no holds barred. Childish stuff like a schoolyard, yes an IN crowd and an OUT crowd.

This sort bullying/making outcast/humiliating/losing face is what makes people go crazy and shoot down all their classmates. And call people names. The name calling would not have happened if OIrish wasn't pushed so far. I don't hear anyone else saying this. You are all forgetting that OIrish used to be so friendly and nice, but he has taken too much shit when his personal life is awful and he's trying to make friendships here from people he thought he would get support from, just as he supported others in a kind way. I don't blame him for going off the deep end. I don't blame him at all.

And before any of you start on at me, I do know what I'm talking about with regards to bullying as my son has experienced it because he is arty and different. He now is seeing a psychologist.

This stuff stinks and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for your lack of support. Not everyone in the world is the same thank Christ.

[NewJerseyRich]

To be completly fair about this, I was just being facetious. Sort of a "well I guess you haven't really made it as a fan group administrator until you've made the Bad Guy list" nudge in the ribs. Nothing serious meant by it at all.

Dzm it was taken completely facetious. I was really answering KwaK's post. I completely understood you.

As for the posting of the petition....if you were to look at the FB page you would see Rover posted a link, thats it. I was pointing out you actually took his words and posted him. I have no problem with what you did, Just wondering how I get slammed for letting someone put a link on a page and you dont for taking the text of the link and puting it in the thread.

This is of course half tounge in cheek as I don't care, I was just making an observation.

[dave 81]

To be completly fair about this, I was just being facetious. Sor of a "well I guess you haven't really made it as a fan group administrator until you've made the Bad Guy list" nudge in the ribs. Nothing serious meant by it at all.

BTW he should have added my name I don't know whay he didn't. Is he banned from the Medusa? If so I am unaware. Why isn't KwaK giving DzM a hard time since he posted the petition?

I'm having trouble parsing this. Since I posted the petition?

Dzm and Zuzana will you be removing yourselves anytime soon? I'm sorry if my leaving his link upset anyone but I took as it was him attacking the perceived "establishment".

Remove ourselves? Well that depends, really. I mean, if we get a giant petition that says "hey, shut down that web site so that we won't be tempted to visit it," well, who are we to fight the hoi palloi? 'Course the hoi palloi COULD much more effectively communicate their desires by just creating other ways to meet and not visit the sites put forth by self-appointed managerial types on their ill-gotten thrones. In fact that would be extra more effective 'cause we'd still be paying for things.

Anyway - Blah blah blah. I still wish the guy the best of luck in getting to Ireland and making music his career. Good luck guy.

Hoi palloi
In my 50 years of existence, I've seen/heard that term once. Well, make it twice now. LSS influence?
NJR....don't feel bad, you'll be a screw in no time.

[NewJerseyRich]

Hoi palloi
In my 50 years of existence, I've seen/heard that term once. Well, make it twice now. LSS influence?
NJR....don't feel bad, you'll be a screw in no time.

I'll have to watch the first half of a Christmas Carol a few hundered more times and get some pointers from old Ebenezer.

Hoi palloi defo isn't one you hear everyday. Must be Hawaiian, no?

[NewJerseyRich]

I have been criticised before for saying that there is an IN crowd here, and there really is, because some of you have met and so have a bond, and even if one of you said something that the other didn't agree on, you wouldn't come out all guns blazing, you would sugar your comments with a smiley to make it palatable and not hurt the other's feelings. But with some others, we get slagged because there is no bond there no matter how long we have been around, so it's no holds barred. Childish stuff like a schoolyard, yes an IN crowd and an OUT crowd.

This stuff stinks and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for your lack of support. Not everyone in the world is the same thank Christ.

Jenny I think you know I agree with you. It's easy to jump on the pile rather then to stick up for someone. Or sign on as some foolish name and say something you wouldn't dare say under your "daily" persona.

Everyones at their clever best when takin' a shot at someone who's down. I'm not going to go all "woe is me" but just look above. I get criticized for just allowing him to post his petition link. OR because I posted his website link. Crazy me looking to try and help someone if I could, what a terrible person I am.

I'll sit with you at lunch Jenny since we can't sit with the cool kids.

[Ingrid Knetsch]

(and Ingrid you said on PRS that he wasn't banned for using OI's but for not doing as he was told, which was to write in proper English. Same thing FFS!).

Exactly Jenny, he did not write proper English though he is able to. I gave him 3 warnings but he simply ignored them! You can try to find as many excuses as you want to but you won't change my mind. Some things are just simple in this world but even a long opus like yours will not change them.

[DzM]

Is IrishRover gone? If he is, it's because he's imposed exile on himself. Whatever his motivation may be for that (bullying, or lack of community support, or malaise, or some other incentive), Zuzana and I have not done anything to push him away other than give him warnings for two posts he made. One poem (for lack of a better description) telling MacRua to "GO FECK YERSELF YE LOITTLE cunt," (etc), and for slandering Ingrid, another member of our larger Pogues fandom community, by acusing her of being a Nazi whore.

ANYONE that posted messages like that would have got the same warnings. In fact Craig, for two of his rants, ALSO received warnings, took the hint, and backed off. Whether he's a hypocrite for asking people to help him fund a tour of Ireland this winter right after slagging IrishRover off is up to the reader.

I think you'll find, Jenny, that MOST of the people here have (and still do) shown a great deal of support for IrishRover. I've been unhappy with his degenerating writing style (of which the slowly spreading OIs are only a small part). I asked him, as a favor to me, to try to tone it down. He didn't and we moved on. If you read back over the last 180+ pages you'll see a lot of support from me (often times encouraging his music, or asking what we can do to rally help for his move, or offering solid advice about how the immigration process for most countries work and things he can do to increase his changes of having a smooth relocation), or from Ekhard, and from many others. We HAVE shown him support and acceptance and made offers to help. We've been deemed unworthy, though, because we don't pander to him any more than we pander to anyone else. Ekhard had the gall to mention that his wife is from Serbia and that they have had lovely vacations in her home country with her family. IrishRover has written off anyone as a false friend, a poseur, a beast of the earth if they do not unconditionally support his belief that the world should work according to his rules. If you encourage him to finish his degree, or put off name changes until AFTER moving, or to try and acquire a "professional" career that can transfer from nation to nation, then you are an enemy. I've been written off as a censoring Nazi managerial type for moving (or allowing others to move) this very thread out of the Shane MacGowan forum. Despite his hatred for us Zuzana and I field numerous complaints from Serbs about his anti-Balkin racist rants, from some Irish citizens that his affectations are a racist caricature, from non-native-English speakers complaining that his writing is indecipherable, etc. We installed a major upgrade to the forum software JUST so people could ignore posts from him rather than complain loudly about him (and an unanticipated side effect of this is that IrishRover himself is by far the largest user of this feature). We intervene on his behalf when comments toward him move from critical to abusive.

I'm not saying that the way some people have reacted to IrishRover is fair or justified. I'm also not saying that the negative reactions he gets from some people aren't to some extent earned. He chooses to behave in a way that he knows annoys a number of people and persists with it despite (initially) polite requests from those users to stop. In a sense he's the guy peeing in the corner of his local and getting angry at everyone else for not enjoying his antics.

I had a much longer ramble going, but I'll just stop. This is the same stupid argument the pops up around IrishRover every month or so. The fact of the matter is that the treatment he gets isn't as bad and one-sided as you or he make it out to be, but it's not great either. It's also not a one-way street. IrishRover brings a lot of this treatment on himself by choosing to behave the way he does. Should people Live & Let Live? Absolutely. Should beautiful and unique individuals be forced to become homogeneous for collective placidity? No. But integral to being an accepted part of ANY group is finding out what the norm for that group is and making some effort to be a part of it. The mosher at a Chieftains show is no more welcome or unridiculed than the person who stands up at a Rocky Horror Picture Show performance and yells "will you people shut up? I'm trying to watch the movie!" Acceptance within any community, any group, is a two-way street.

[Ingrid Knetsch]

Very well, logical and true statement. I agree 100% with you except the fact that Eckhard's wife is not from Serbia but from Croatia.

[Eckhard]

Very well, logical and true statement. I agree 100% with you except the fact that Eckhard's wife is not from Serbia but from Croatia.

Thanks Ingrid, but DZM is actually right. But you're not quite wrong either: She comes from Northern Serbia, but her family is, as quite a few people in the region is of Croatian heritage.

Complicated country

[Clash Cadillac]

I think you'll find, Jenny, that MOST of the people here have (and still do) shown a great deal of support for IrishRover.

Yeah, I defended Oirish's use of the OIs and tried to support him but I thought his tirade against Eckhard was uncalled for. Eckhard even tried to offer an olive branch which Oirish spat on. Those that defend OIrish's actions are clearly biased. You know we yanks are quick to forgive and forget however a simple apology would first be required.

[girlfromcountyhell]

This is out of control! I got an invite to join his group....declined it, but I kinda wonder what they're saying

[MissWalshy]

Feel better IR.