Half Empty Arenas?

[scotty]

Ive been to see The Pogues now for the last six years 3 times at Manchester Arena,Twice At Nottingham and Once on Friday at Sheffield.My question is why do The Pogues booking agents book tham to play in arenas?,No disrespect but the band just cant fill them end of.Last year at Nottingham was shocking probably around 3,000 in a 10,000 Arena and the years previous wasnt much better.Sheffield Last friday was the best ive seen them in the Academy,Sold out and a fantastic atmosphere aswell.My point is surely it makes for a better gig knowing beforhand that the venue will sell out or be 90% full.Maybe Mr C could answer this question for me.Thanks and Merry Xmas

[philipchevron]

Ive been to see The Pogues now for the last six years 3 times at Manchester Arena,Twice At Nottingham and Once on Friday at Sheffield.My question is why do The Pogues booking agents book tham to play in arenas?,No disrespect but the band just cant fill them end of.Last year at Nottingham was shocking probably around 3,000 in a 10,000 Arena and the years previous wasnt much better.Sheffield Last friday was the best ive seen them in the Academy,Sold out and a fantastic atmosphere aswell.My point is surely it makes for a better gig knowing beforhand that the venue will sell out or be 90% full.Maybe Mr C could answer this question for me.Thanks and Merry Xmas

No, Mr C is not party to such negotiations. Certain facts can however be drawn from your figures - one is that they are simply incorrect - "probably around 3000" is considerably wide of the mark for last year's Nottingham show but, more importantly, demand ebbs and flows very significantly with the Pogues, as the past seven years in Manchester alone indicates. As I have been filling, not filling, emptying and exorcising venues since 1971, I do know a little about the economics of choosing venues and it might surprise you to learn that the venue which appears to most closely fit the act in question is not necessarily, or even most often, the venue the act will end up playing. There are further aspects which punters rarely consider (and why should they?) - the funky little local venue that was "great" to see the band in in 1985 may actually have been a complete and utter toilet from the band's point of view, and it is major factor in "funky little local venues" view of themselves that they got this reputation in the first place not from the fact that music-starved punters were willing to put up with disgusting facilities, warm overpriced beer and over-zealous bouncers and musicians were willing to put up with cramped, filthy dressing room quarters and less than edible food, but despite these facts about the venue. And to offer these slums to 19-year olds who will do just about anything to get gigs is not the same as offering them to veteran men of the road, all of whom are now officially in their 6th decade and have, by almost any degree of measurement you care to mention, earned a greater degree of respect and comfort than a 19-year old boy hoping he will still have a music career after he's completed his engineering thesis.

But I sympathise. Almost every producer of musicals in New York would kill to put his show into the legendary Winter Garden Theatre, where among other things Al Jolson promised crowds "you ain't heard nothin' yet" even as he sent the rest of the cast home for the evening. It''s just a great theatre. And it has had exactly two tenants since 1982 - the lamentable (but long-running) Cats and the infantile (but long-running) Mamma Mia. I have never been inside it.

[soulfinger]

All accepted Mr C, but the MEN is still a terrible barn of a place from the punters' point of view.

Last year at whatever the GMEX is now called was grand; the best atmosphere since 2001 - from an audience perspective at least. I know you'll never play the equivalent of Sloskys / the Carousel again and agree you all deserve much more respect than the grotty facilities thereof - but it was bloody wonderful at the time from out front.

I hope, if there is to be a tour next year, that somewhere slightly smaller is selected by whoever does the choosing of the venue in Manchester. I understand however that the venue with best prospective financial return must be option number one as there are many Pogues to divvy up the takings.

More than all of that, I hope you will be fit for selection, as you really were greatly, greatly missed.

[scotty]

Ive been to see The Pogues now for the last six years 3 times at Manchester Arena,Twice At Nottingham and Once on Friday at Sheffield.My question is why do The Pogues booking agents book tham to play in arenas?,No disrespect but the band just cant fill them end of.Last year at Nottingham was shocking probably around 3,000 in a 10,000 Arena and the years previous wasnt much better.Sheffield Last friday was the best ive seen them in the Academy,Sold out and a fantastic atmosphere aswell.My point is surely it makes for a better gig knowing beforhand that the venue will sell out or be 90% full.Maybe Mr C could answer this question for me.Thanks and Merry Xmas

No, Mr C is not party to such negotiations. Certain facts can however be drawn from your figures - one is that they are simply incorrect - "probably around 3000" is considerably wide of the mark for last year's Nottingham show but, more importantly, demand ebbs and flows very significantly with the Pogues, as the past seven years in Manchester alone indicates. As I have been filling, not filling, emptying and exorcising venues since 1971, I do know a little about the economics of choosing venues and it might surprise you to learn that the venue which appears to most closely fit the act in question is not necessarily, or even most often, the venue the act will end up playing. There are further aspects which punters rarely consider (and why should they?) - the funky little local venue that was "great" to see the band in in 1985 may actually have been a complete and utter toilet from the band's point of view, and it is major factor in "funky little local venues" view of themselves that they got this reputation in the first place not from the fact that music-starved punters were willing to put up with disgusting facilities, warm overpriced beer and over-zealous bouncers and musicians were willing to put up with cramped, filthy dressing room quarters and less than edible food, but despite these facts about the venue. And to offer these slums to 19-year olds who will do just about anything to get gigs is not the same as offering them to veteran men of the road, all of whom are now officially in their 6th decade and have, by almost any degree of measurement you care to mention, earned a greater degree of respect and comfort than a 19-year old boy hoping he will still have a music career after he's completed his engineering thesis.

But I sympathise. Almost every producer of musicals in New York would kill to put his show into the legendary Winter Garden Theatre, where among other things Al Jolson promised crowds "you ain't heard nothin' yet" even as he sent the rest of the cast home for the evening. It''s just a great theatre. And it has had exactly two tenants since 1982 - the lamentable (but long-running) Cats and the infantile (but long-running) Mamma Mia. I have never been inside it.

Hi Mr C
Is there any chance you coulod tell us the attendance figures for the Manchester and Nottingham arena shows then?,I swear last year at Nottingham the Arena wasnt even half full.

[Eckhard]

I do like the MEN-Arena actually. I always had good seats with a good view. You can easily reach the places where you get something to drink as well as acceptable bathrooms.
I honestly do not like venues that are too overcrowded, where you have to fight your way for half an hour to reach the bar or a crappy toilet. I did enjoy such venues 15-20 years ago, but today I like it a little bit more comfortable.
The G-MEX last year was okay, but it felt like a cold and huge aircraft hangar. I guess there is no perfect venue to please everyone.

[philipchevron]

Ive been to see The Pogues now for the last six years 3 times at Manchester Arena,Twice At Nottingham and Once on Friday at Sheffield.My question is why do The Pogues booking agents book tham to play in arenas?,No disrespect but the band just cant fill them end of.Last year at Nottingham was shocking probably around 3,000 in a 10,000 Arena and the years previous wasnt much better.Sheffield Last friday was the best ive seen them in the Academy,Sold out and a fantastic atmosphere aswell.My point is surely it makes for a better gig knowing beforhand that the venue will sell out or be 90% full.Maybe Mr C could answer this question for me.Thanks and Merry Xmas

No, Mr C is not party to such negotiations. Certain facts can however be drawn from your figures - one is that they are simply incorrect - "probably around 3000" is considerably wide of the mark for last year's Nottingham show but, more importantly, demand ebbs and flows very significantly with the Pogues, as the past seven years in Manchester alone indicates. As I have been filling, not filling, emptying and exorcising venues since 1971, I do know a little about the economics of choosing venues and it might surprise you to learn that the venue which appears to most closely fit the act in question is not necessarily, or even most often, the venue the act will end up playing. There are further aspects which punters rarely consider (and why should they?) - the funky little local venue that was "great" to see the band in in 1985 may actually have been a complete and utter toilet from the band's point of view, and it is major factor in "funky little local venues" view of themselves that they got this reputation in the first place not from the fact that music-starved punters were willing to put up with disgusting facilities, warm overpriced beer and over-zealous bouncers and musicians were willing to put up with cramped, filthy dressing room quarters and less than edible food, but despite these facts about the venue. And to offer these slums to 19-year olds who will do just about anything to get gigs is not the same as offering them to veteran men of the road, all of whom are now officially in their 6th decade and have, by almost any degree of measurement you care to mention, earned a greater degree of respect and comfort than a 19-year old boy hoping he will still have a music career after he's completed his engineering thesis.

But I sympathise. Almost every producer of musicals in New York would kill to put his show into the legendary Winter Garden Theatre, where among other things Al Jolson promised crowds "you ain't heard nothin' yet" even as he sent the rest of the cast home for the evening. It''s just a great theatre. And it has had exactly two tenants since 1982 - the lamentable (but long-running) Cats and the infantile (but long-running) Mamma Mia. I have never been inside it.

Hi Mr C
Is there any chance you coulod tell us the attendance figures for the Manchester and Nottingham arena shows then?,I swear last year at Nottingham the Arena wasnt even half full.

Yes you had already mentioned that, but I am not going to divulge the exact figures I have just to prove a secondary point. Do I look like a copy of weekly in-house entertainment mag Variety?

[Jon]

Would it also be a consideration on the part of the venue to undersell the venue - so while the tickets might be considered Sold Out, the seating capacity might not be? I know that Brandon Hall in Bristol has done this on occasion.

On a similar topic (the Academy is sold out), "WELCOME BACK TO BRISTOL" after too long an absence. Without wishing to consult the "weekly in-house entertainment mag, Variety", I'm sure the last gig was in support of Rum Sodomy & The Lash?

[mike1]

Jon....haven't been to Bristol for a while- is the Academy what was once "back in the day" called the Top Rank- upstairs by the ice rink? If so thats a fantastic venue to see the Pogues- quite an intimate venue. Remember a couple of great nights seeing the Clash there .

[philipchevron]

Would it also be a consideration on the part of the venue to undersell the venue - so while the tickets might be considered Sold Out, the seating capacity might not be? I know that Brandon Hall in Bristol has done this on occasion.

On a similar topic (the Academy is sold out), "WELCOME BACK TO BRISTOL" after too long an absence. Without wishing to consult the "weekly in-house entertainment mag, Variety", I'm sure the last gig was in support of Rum Sodomy & The Lash?

We didn't do Bristol with Joe?? Oh, my!

[Sidspid]

I have to say that at all the Pogues gigs I have attended recently, including the one mentioned at Nottingham Arena, I have been more preoccupied with what's happening on stage then counting any empty seats.

Relax and enjoy the gig!

[padders]

have to disagree with the poster re; MEN - was there year before last for the gig and was very impressed with it - compares very well to wembley arena for one thing

ohj and Phillip - hope to see you on stage in the new year - have a good xmas

[Jon]

The Carling Academy was once the Cannon Cinema, the Top Rank Club (or Studios near the Ice Rink is probably Student Accomodation now which is a shame, it was a bloody good venue for the punter with a bouncing balcony for Swandiving. I'd get starry eyed reminiscing...although Mrs Me & I have both been to many gigs at the Studios since the age of 14, we've listed everything we saw - including The Whip (Goth club run by her brother) and mostly we had matching lists - ain't that cute?

We didn't do Bristol with Joe?? Oh, my!

Birmingham NEC or Newport, I think was the closest you'd have got as that's where I saw the Joe Gigs (as replacement guitarist & vocalist) - I'm 99% sure as I reckon I'd have picked Bristol over Newport.

[AndrewOG]

Personally, I am more concerned with the sound than the size of the arena.
When I first saw the pogues in nyc a few years ago they played in the Nokia theater which was pretty nice and new and had great sound. Now they play in Roseland, which is bigger but is very old and it sounds very good, but not as good as Nokia if I recall.
I saw Dropkick mUrhpys in Roseland 2 years ago, and the sound was awful, and we were standing right next to the main soundboard. What a difference a sound guy can do. The pogues must have one of the best.

[Clash Cadillac]

Personally, I am more concerned with the sound than the size of the arena.
When I first saw the pogues in nyc a few years ago they played in the Nokia theater which was pretty nice and new and had great sound. Now they play in Roseland, which is bigger but is very old and it sounds very good, but not as good as Nokia if I recall.
I saw Dropkick mUrhpys in Roseland 2 years ago, and the sound was awful, and we were standing right next to the main soundboard. What a difference a sound guy can do. The pogues must have one of the best.

I am sure Philip can elaborate on this but you are right on, a sound man makes all the difference. I was at a small venue that had been converted from a foundry, the owner was a retired sound man so you would think he would have thought about the acoustics of the place which were a nightmare. After about 4 songs of shit sound the bands sound man took over the controls and straightened things out. I spoke with him after the show and he commented on what a nightmare the acoustics were in the venue. The right man at the controls makes all the difference.

[philipchevron]

Personally, I am more concerned with the sound than the size of the arena.
When I first saw the pogues in nyc a few years ago they played in the Nokia theater which was pretty nice and new and had great sound. Now they play in Roseland, which is bigger but is very old and it sounds very good, but not as good as Nokia if I recall.
I saw Dropkick mUrhpys in Roseland 2 years ago, and the sound was awful, and we were standing right next to the main soundboard. What a difference a sound guy can do. The pogues must have one of the best.

I am sure Philip can elaborate on this but you are right on, a sound man makes all the difference. I was at a small venue that had been converted from a foundry, the owner was a retired sound man so you would think he would have thought about the acoustics of the place which were a nightmare. After about 4 songs of shit sound the bands sound man took over the controls and straightened things out. I spoke with him after the show and he commented on what a nightmare the acoustics were in the venue. The right man at the controls makes all the difference.

Paul Scully, has been doing the thankless job of mixing gentle acoustic instruments in with roaring electric ones for 23 years. It is such an extrordinarily complex job, and up against not just the acoustic quirks of the venue but also the individual eccentricities and needs of the individual musicians, that it is remarkable it is done at all, much less done well. If you are not happy with the sound at a Pogues gig, move, you're in the wrong place in the venue. or possibly you have cloth ears. Nobody could create the Pogues live sound like Paul Scully, and nobody ever has, Nick Robbins thinks Paul Scully is a genius. So do I.