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What Album Have You Just Bought?

A place to discuss largely non-Pogues related things.
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2364 posts • Page 23 of 158 • 1 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 ... 158
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Post Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:43 am

rain dog wrote:
Fintan wrote:And have ye listened to Mr. Zimmerman yet? I gave it its' first spin yesterday (and the bonus DVD) and enjoyed it immensely. Some lovely stuff in there.


mate, just got this one last night, and it's been on repeat all day. really, REALLY good, even for dylan. if you thought the last two "comeback/renaissance" albums were good, this one tops them both.
second track 'spirit on the water' in particular is already in danger of wearing out.
everyone go out and get some into you.

(didn't get one with a dvd though... must have missed that? back to the store...[it actually is worth buying twice])


I got the DVD and although it does have "Things Have Changed" (is that the title? The Oscar winner?) on it, it's really just a bunch of 4 promos.
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Post Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:03 pm

philipchevron wrote:
I got the DVD and although it does have "Things Have Changed" (is that the title? The Oscar winner?) on it, it's really just a bunch of 4 promos.


Yes, an odd bunch of videos - I bought the thing off iTunes and haven't downloaded all the videos yet - and for stuff from a wide variety of albums. The rarely-seen b&w promo for "Blood in My Eye", which features Bob juggling (!) , the one for "Jokerman" (I think that one's an extra only for iTunes), "Things Have Changed", the performance of "Love Sick" from (I think) the Grammys - where he was accosted by Soy Bomb, except they've edited Mr. Bomb out - and "Cold Irons Bound" from "Masked and Anonymous" (although I think it's abbreviated in the movie). All of which are REALLY good tunes and cool videos, and if you don't already have them, they're a nice addition to any Croakyface Collection.

I absolutely love the album, of course, especially given my recent obsession with pre-rock&roll forms such as blues and hillbilly music. It's funny, though - none of the rave reviews I've read of it have mentioned how similar most of it is to songs from the last two albums. Some of the melodies are identical to songs from Love & Theft, and "Ain't Talkin'" is very similar to both "Love Sick" and "The Man in the Long Black Coat" from Oh Mercy. And of course half of it is just blues songs with re-written lyrics - in the case of "Rollin' & Tumblin' " and "When The Levee Breaks" he didn't even change the titles.

But that's not really meant as a criticism, and in fact is the way he's always done things. And it's the way folk songs work - Woody Guthrie took "This Land Is Your Land" straight from a Carter Family song, which A.P. Carter learned from some guy up the holler and then claimed songwriting credit for "working it up", as he termed it. "Someday Baby" is just Bob "working up" Muddy Waters' "Trouble No More", which he probably swiped from Charley Patton, etc.

I think the real brilliance of the album is how Dylan uses what's left of his voice. I find it soothing and tender, yet raspy as sandpaper at the same time. Absolutely wonderful, in my opinion.

The lyrics - again, partially a hodge-podge of blues cliches and stuff he read somewhere - ain't bad either.
Disclaimer: These are my opinions and not fact as realised in these here United States, lest I give my friends the idea that everyone thinks like me.
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Post Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:51 pm

his voice really is the highlight of this one for me, matured beautifully, far more tuneful and rough enough to scare the Idol crowd away. his lead work is also on form, and the whole thing sounds so loose and warm. not dissimilar to the boss' last one, sounding like old friends jamming in a nice warm room, playing songs they've never heard before, but have somehow always known.

and you have to love an album that doesn't hold onto time signatures, and timing in general, like they're the answer to problems in the middle east...
I went and set the Thames on fire,
Now I must come back down
She's laughing in her sleeve at me,
I can feel it in my bones
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Post Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:03 pm

I've been buying my way through the Wolfsheim discography :) Still a couple of CDs missing, which I am pleased about. Nothing like getting to know great bands!

And just the other day I discovered a "new" band: Chamber. They play rock with a couple of guitars, violins, a double bass, a cello... Sort of goth-vibeish.

Had to buy Subway to Sally "Herzblut" again too - the first CD stopped working due to hard work load. Note to self: make backups.
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Post Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:20 pm

philipchevron wrote:I got the DVD and although it does have "Things Have Changed" (is that the title? The Oscar winner?) on it, it's really just a bunch of 4 promos.

Yeah, I know Philip, but still, it's four film clips of Bob. So, all in all, it's still cool. 8) :)
Craig Andrew Batty @ http://www.reverbnation.com/fintan Please join and support and enjoy live music and musicians. Thanks folks!
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Post Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:26 am

John Hammond - Wicked Grin

Bob Dylan - Modern Times
...kind of makes Love and Theft seem like its evil twin.
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Post Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:30 pm

cougar wrote:John Hammond - Wicked Grin

Bob Dylan - Modern Times
...kind of makes Love and Theft seem like its evil twin.


I love Wicked Grin, but the songs on there that I like best are the ones that Tom DIDN'T record himself, because Hammond's versions aren't quite as good as the originals. (No shame in THAT. Not much IS as good as that!) And the one I listen to the MOST is "I Know I've Been Changed" because Tom sings on that one.

The first time I heard that song, when Tom came in, I immediately thought of that picture of Bleeding Kansas. That's what he sounds like to me.


And I agree that Love & Theft is Modern Times' evil twin. Cut from the same cloth.

I'd like to have a suit made from that cloth!
Last edited by O'Blivion on Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Disclaimer: These are my opinions and not fact as realised in these here United States, lest I give my friends the idea that everyone thinks like me.
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Post Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:48 pm

Blind Willie Johnson - The Soul Of A Man

AND

TOO MANY Scurvy Salty Sea Dogs to name - Rogue's Gallery (Pirate Ballads, Sea Songs & Chanteys)
Craig Andrew Batty @ http://www.reverbnation.com/fintan Please join and support and enjoy live music and musicians. Thanks folks!
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SIGNED & SEALED & "DELIVERED"

Post Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:12 am

Sign & Sealed some artist called Fintan?

The CD arrived sometime last week but I was away on Holiday getting blown around in the Hurricane.

BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!

I especially like that polka piece "Staten Island" (I'm gonna cover that one) that follows "Whiskey Yer The Divil" and "Is Iomaidh Coisceim Fada". Great CD!

All the Best to you and the band Mr. Fintan! 8) 8)
Bíonn dhá insint ar scéal agus dhá leagan déag ar amhrán
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Post Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:23 pm

Kila & Oki,
Stockton's Wing- Live: Take One
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Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:45 am

THE VERY BEST OF BOBBIE GENTRY
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Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:03 pm

philipchevron wrote:THE VERY BEST OF BOBBIE GENTRY


She always reminded me a bit of Dusty Springfield.

As a kid, it was always a bit of a mystery exactly what was going on up on Choctaw Ridge.

In fact I still don't know. Why DID Billie Joe McAllister jump off the Tallahassee Bridge?
Disclaimer: These are my opinions and not fact as realised in these here United States, lest I give my friends the idea that everyone thinks like me.
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Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:24 pm

bob dylan modern times

jim croce greatest hits

ray lamontagne until the sun turns black


and next week madeleine peyrouxs new album(cant wait!)
....got pissed in limavady
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Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:05 pm

O'Blivion wrote:
In fact I still don't know. Why DID Billie Joe McAllister jump off the Tallahassee Bridge?


The sleeve notes reveal that the 4-minute edit of "Ode To Billie Joe" with the added strings is in fact derived from a longer 7-minute version which appears on Gentry's debut album of the same name. Only in this long version is the reason fror the suicide uncovered. And no, Bobbie Gentry's first album is not available on a $5 CD on Amazon, so if anyone knows what drove Billie Joe McAllister to the edge, please put us out of our misery.
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Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:32 pm

Google unearthed the following argument which dismisses the sleeve note claim.

--------------------------------------------------------

The Mystery of Ode to Billy Joe

In 1967 country singer Bobbie Gentry released a single entitled Ode to Billy Joe. The song's breezy bluegrass tune and memorable chorus made it an instant hit, and today it remains one of the most popular country songs of all time.

The song has remained popular for another reason, however. The lyrics of Billy Joe are haunting and mysterious, and recount an odd Southern gothic tale of a young man's tragic suicide. The story is noticeably incomplete however, and the listener is left with many unanswered questions.

This page is an attempt to summarize the controversy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lyrics

The following are the complete lyrics to Ode to Billy Joe. The song is approximately three minutes long. There does not appear to be any truth to the rumors that the song was originally longer but was trimmed for length, and thus that vital lyrics were "cut."

Also note that the spelling "Billie Joe" is often substituted for "Billy Joe," with the former spelling actually being used on the albulm cover.

It was the third of June,
another sleepy, dusty Delta day.
I was out choppin' cotton
and my brother was balin' hay.
And at dinner time we stopped,
and we walked back to the house to eat.
And mama hollered at the back door
"y'all remember to wipe your feet."
And then she said she got some news this mornin' from Choctaw Ridge
Today Billy Joe MacAllister jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge.

Papa said to mama as he passed around the blackeyed peas,
"Well, Billy Joe never had a lick of sense,
pass the biscuits, please."
"There's five more acres in the lower forty I've got to plow."
Mama said it was shame about Billy Joe, anyhow.
Seems like nothin' ever comes to no good up on Choctaw Ridge,
And now Billy Joe MacAllister's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge

And brother said he recollected when he and Tom and Billy Joe
Put a frog down my back at the Carroll County picture show.
And wasn't I talkin' to him after church last Sunday night?
"I'll have another piece of apple pie, you know it don't seem right.
I saw him at the sawmill yesterday on Choctaw Ridge,
And now you tell me Billy Joe's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge."

Mama said to me "Child, what's happened to your appetite?
I've been cookin' all morning and you haven't touched a single bite.
That nice young preacher, Brother Taylor, dropped by today,
Said he'd be pleased to have dinner on Sunday. Oh, by the way,
He said he saw a girl that looked a lot like you up on Choctaw Ridge
And she and Billy Joe was throwing somethin' off the Tallahatchie Bridge."

A year has come 'n' gone since we heard the news 'bout Billy Joe.
Brother married Becky Thompson, they bought a store in Tupelo.
There was a virus going 'round, papa caught it and he died last spring,
And now mama doesn't seem to wanna do much of anything.
And me, I spend a lot of time pickin' flowers up on Choctaw Ridge,
And drop them into the muddy water off the Tallahatchie Bridge.

Annotations

Facts we can divulge from the song:

1) The story takes place in Mississippi. Choctaw Ridge, Carroll County, Tupelo, and the Tallahatchie Bridge all exist in real life. The opening line suggests the speaker lives in the Delta religion of the state, which is located in nothern Mississippi.

2) the speaker's father does not care much for Billy Joe, her mother is more sympathetic, and her brother was apparently a friend of his at one time.

3) the speaker apparently had some degree of sympathetic relationship with Billy Joe. She was talking to him at church and was seen with him on the bridge. When she finds out he is dead she loses her appetite (unlike the rest of the family) and later spends "a lot of time" throwing flowers off the bridge in what is clearly some sort of memorial tribute.

4) the family of the speaker is largely oblivious to the relationship she had with Billy Joe, and for some reason she has no interest in bringing it up.

Unresolved questions from the song:

1) What did the speaker and Billy Joe throw off the bridge, and at what time did this event occur? The fact that Brother Taylor visited the speaker's house on the same day Billy Joe died does not necessarily mean he saw the girl and Billy Joe throwing the thing off the bridge on this day as well.

2) What degree of relationship did the speaker and Billy Joe have? Was it sexual? Ages are not given, but it is suggested that the speaker is at the very least a teenager. She lives with her parents, but is capable of doing hard labor in the field. Her brother is old enough to get married and move out of the house. The brother recalls putting a frog down his sister's dress- a rather immature stunt- but this likely happened years ago and is being remembered out of nostalgia.

3) The key question- why did Billy Joe commit suicide, and to what degree was this related to:
-his relationship with the speaker
-talking to the speaker at church the Sunday prior
-he and the speaker throwing something off the bridge
-visiting the sawmill the day before

Themes

Regardless of the unanswered questions of the song's plot, the song nevertheless contains several themes. The first is simply that of a "period piece" of Southern life in the early 20th Century.


The other theme is a darker one, about the indifference we often show towards the loss of human life. The speaker's family talks about a young man's suicide in the most nonchalant way possible. The line "Well, Billy Joe never had a lick of sense/ pass the biscuits, please" is a great example. Aside from the speaker, no one seems to know or care much about Billy Joe. His death is just a source of dinnertime gossip, like the weather.

Theories

1) The most common theory is that Billy Joe and the speaker were indeed involved in some degree of romantic / sexual relationship that was kept hidden from the speaker's family because the father strongly disliked Billy Joe. This in turn is commonly interpreted as meaning the couple had an unplanned child at some point, and they threw the baby off the bridge together rather than deal with this manifestation of their illicit relationship. The guilt stemming from the murder of his own child later in turn caused Billy Joe to kill himself.

Some have gone even further and speculated that because the child was unwanted, it was either stillborn or aborted in some haphazard fashion, and then quietly "disposed" of off the bridge to hide the proof that the pregnancy had ever occurred. I've heard some point to the relevance of the "Child, what's happened to your appetite" line as a subtle key to this. Loss of appetite commonly occurs after giving birth. But it also commonly occurs when someone is depressed.

2) Another theory is that Billy Joe and the speaker are different races. This is consistent with the song's Southern theme and may explain the speaker's motivation for keeping her relationship with Billy Joe hidden. The food being eaten at dinner may be intended to represent traditional black Southern cuisine, and the mother's use of the word "child" to address her daughter is a rather distinctly African-American expression. The speaker similarly mentions picking cotton, which is likewise a chore that has been primarily associated with Southern blacks since the days of slavery. An inter-racial relationship during the period in which the song is set would clearly be a social taboo, and may have led the speaker to break up with Billy Joe, who proceeded to commit suicide. The unwanted child theory can be similarly strengthened by this premise, as a mixed-race baby would be even more socially unacceptable than an mixed race romance.

3) A third theory says that Billy Joe's suicidal tendencies were well-known to the speaker. The thing thrown off the bridge was thus a gun, after she successfully convinced Billy Joe not to kill himself. But then later he jumped off the bridge anyway, proving the failure of her efforts.

Is there a "correct" answer?

It depends. There are two "official" sources you can cite.

1) According to the 1975 movie

In 1976 Warner Bros. made a movie inspired by the song, entitled simply Ode to Billy Joe. It starred Robby Benson as Billy Joe McAllister and Glynnis O'Connor as the speaker, who was given the name "Bobbie Lee Hartley."
The film's tagline was "What the song didn't tell you, the movie will" and thus purported to provide an authoritative conclusion to the mystery.

The movie has been criticized for taking too many artisitc liberties and introducing too much new information that is not even hinted at in the song. Wikipedia provides the following plot summary:

Set in the early 1950s, the film explores the budding relationship between budding relationship between Bobbie Lee Hartley [the song's narrator character] and Billy Joe McAllister.

Hartley and McAllister struggle to form a relationship despite resistence from Hartley's family, who contend she is too young to date. They develop the relationship, despite the odds in their way. One night at a party, however, McAllister gets drunk. In his inebriated state, he makes love to another man dressed in drag, though later he reveals he knew what he was doing. He bids an enigmatical goodbye to Hartley. Overcome with guilt, McAllister subsequently kills himself by jumping off the bridge spanning the Tallahatchie River in Mississippi.

[...]

The object thrown from the bridge is the narrator's ragdoll; throughout the book and film she voices her concerns that she will always remain a child. The ragdoll being thrown from the bridge marks the point at which she begins moving towards adulthood.

The reference to the "book" refers to the 1976 movie novelization.

2) According to Bobby Gentry

Bobby Gentry has historically remained coy about the meaning of her song. According to her, the main theme of Billy Joe was simply death and dying, and the ways in which we can be indifferent and oblivious to the suffering of others.


In a 2002 interview with the Florida-based TCPalm.com website, Herman Raucher, the screenplay writer of the Billy Joe film, recalls his encounter with Gentry as he tried to figure out the song's meaning:


INTERVIEWER: [You wrote] the screenplay for the Deep South, song-inspired film Ode to Billy Joe. How did that come about?
RAUCHER: There’s an actor and writer and producer and director named Max Baer, whose father was the world [heavyweight boxing] champion. And Max called me because Summer of ‘42 just knocked him out, and he said, I’ve got the rights to Ode to Billy Joe. Now, you have to understand that Ode to Billy Joe was, at that time, the largest selling record in musical history.
I said, ‘Max, what the hell do I know about Ode to Billy Joe?’
He says, ‘I want you to come out here and meet with Bobbie Gentry - I’ll pay your way out here.’
I said, OK. ... Max and I go to meet her, and I ask her what does the song mean?
She said, ‘I made it up. I don’t know what it means.’
I said, ‘You don’t know why he jumped off the bridge?’
She said, ‘I have no idea.’

He proceeds to explain that since the song apparently lacked a "true" meaning, he simply made up his own storyline to explain the lyrics.


Bobbie Gentry is still alive, but has largely fallen from the public radar screen. She has never published an autobiography, so today it is difficult to determine if she has ever made any more authoritative statements on the meaning of "Billy Joe." There is no reason to deny Raucher's story. Many musicians, notably John Lennon and the Beatles, have frequently made similar statements indicating that their songs' lyrics don't have a firm meaning and it is instead up for the listener to determine their significance.

It does seem a bit odd to me that Herman Raucher would travel all the way to meet Gentry in person just so she could tell him the song has no meaning. Couldn't a simple phone call have sufficed?
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