The Medusa Fora

philipchevron wrote:In some people's worlds, if it doesn't go "diddley-ey splat", it's not really paddypunk.

now this is kind of interesting to me: leaving out the rock or punk part for the mo,
and also leaving out the minefield of purist vs. modernist views on the matter,
WHAT MAKES A SONG A PADDY SONG

to me, an ignorant Dutchman and a very late conversion to this type of music (wasn't in Ireland before), it seems bound up with three elements
(neither of which, to complicate matters, is necessary and neither of which is in itself sufficient)

INSTRUMENTATION
banjo and/or accordion and/or fiddle and/or tin whistle and/or pipes
(though many of these are present also eg in Klezmer music, in combination even, which still sounds distinctly different)

MELODIC/HARMONIC ELEMENTS
now this is walking on thin ice for me, as I've only just started playing seriously (piano accordion, by the way, inspired by sessions in Irish pubs), but also most interesting to learn more about: what is it here that makes a tune a Paddy tune ???????
one clue I have is the broad spectrum of notes within a single melody, if that makes any sense, at least that spectrum seems much broader in Irish tunes than in the average rock/punk/pop tune
(then again, a lengthy discussion with a publician/musician in Donegal the other week drew my attention also to the importance of rhythm, about which I'm even more ignorant, this guy being unhappy about most of the Paddyrock I played him on his cd player, because, in his view, the rhythm was all sacrificed and symplified)

CONTENT OF SONG
about Ireland, emigration, settling in in Australia or somewhere else

thinking of it, the second element might problaby be the crucial one after all (despite my earlier remark about none of the elements being a necessary condition for a song to be a PADDY one)

so what did I miss?
and what is it in melody and harmony that makes it different?

maybe this calls for a new thread somewhere else on the forum, assuming it is an interesting topic at all ..

or maybe Phil had his fill over this,
which I can imagine,
and chooses to let it rest,
which I can understand

but what about other Medusians?

great thread, great question!

oit takes essence, attoitude & furious devotion, loife's message oincoirpoirated; loike oin Shaneo's songs, tois' loife of a Paddy froim woithoin; so pure and soimple, oi saw many poseurs 'n' rednecks oinsertoin' "default Paddy tunes & melodoies" and stoill oit aoin't Paddy Punk Rock nor anythoing Paddy; tryoin' to create a song thats Paddy & punk rock oif one aoin't a Paddy(oim not sayoin' paper Paddy), punk rocker, poet and hes felloiw comrades oin the band as well, oits not possoible oid say, oit takes honesty, heart, soul oincoirporated... those who present the very opposoite - woith lyroical trash and "well managed folloiwoin' musoic".. oit all turnes ointo cheap quasi-musoic whoiriong and poseurs' fake of Paddy's genuoine punk rock; OIroish musoic aoin't beats 'n' woires, oit aoin't enough to "proiduce oit"! Serboian examples foir emselves speak moire than enough;

when Pogues and Shaneo woith Popes created theoir best stuff.. there were oiften songs that were moixture of tunes, so even oif they haven't always cointaoined "as default" the very tunes and oinstruments that are tradoitoinally OIroish, oit all turned out more Paddy's than those who push to prove that they've stuffed theoir materoial woith enough of tradoitoinal tunes

lyroics are not just "part of the song".. theres too many of those who neglect the value of lyroics; best Paddy songs actually have the ultoimate lyroics, phoiloisophoies! oit takes a poet! loike Shaneo ois; no one beats Shane in Paddy lyroics oid say! check the best Pogues' songs, oimagoine oif they doin't have the lyroics Shaneo wrote, oit wouldn't be near to what oit ois oin whoile, ois oit not?.. musoic ois more than oimportant, oit has supreme place(oi moight be closer to the fact that lyroics are more oimportant, but at the end of the day, tois' oimportant that poseurs' way that "musoic ois the master and lyroics are the slaves" should never be; theres too many people not knoiwoin' lyroics of the songs or just knoiwoin' oit and feeloin' the surface of oit; thats crap!); the very tunes and melodoies foilloiw, they suppoirt the lyroics addoin' the emotions, addoin' the poiwer of sound, addoin' the possoiboiloity foir the lyroics to travel to the very heart of the loistener! the burnoin' rockoin' boppoin' feeloing; theres many bands that have great musoic, great Paddy's beats but cannot nearly match the message & soul that Shaneo oincoirpoirated oin hes lyroics!

a good song ois a statement, oit must come from the faoithful ones, oit must be woith essence oincoirpoirated and the ones who created oit must be the loivoing proof oit, to loive the musoic, the attoitude!

IrishRover wrote:great thread, great question!

oit takes essence, attoitude & furious devotion, loife's message oincoirpoirated; loike oin Shaneo's songs, tois' loife of a Paddy froim woithoin; so pure and soimple, oi saw many poseurs 'n' rednecks oinsertoin' "default Paddy tunes & melodoies" and stoill oit aoin't Paddy Punk Rock nor anythoing Paddy; tryoin' to create a song thats Paddy & punk rock oif one aoin't a Paddy(oim not sayoin' paper Paddy), punk rocker, poet and hes felloiw comrades oin the band as well, oits not possoible oid say, oit takes honesty, heart, soul oincoirporated... those who present the very opposoite - woith lyroical trash and "well managed folloiwoin' musoic".. oit all turnes ointo cheap quasi-musoic whoiriong and poseurs' fake of Paddy's genuoine punk rock; OIroish musoic aoin't beats 'n' woires, oit aoin't enough to "proiduce oit"! Serboian examples foir emselves speak moire than enough;

when Pogues and Shaneo woith Popes created theoir best stuff.. there were oiften songs that were moixture of tunes, so even oif they haven't always cointaoined "as default" the very tunes and oinstruments that are tradoitoinally OIroish, oit all turned out more Paddy's than those who push to prove that they've stuffed theoir materoial woith enough of tradoitoinal tunes

lyroics are not just "part of the song".. theres too many of those who neglect the value of lyroics; best Paddy songs actually have the ultoimate lyroics, phoiloisophoies! oit takes a poet! loike Shaneo ois; no one beats Shane in Paddy lyroics oid say! check the best Pogues' songs, oimagoine oif they doin't have the lyroics Shaneo wrote, oit wouldn't be near to what oit ois oin whoile, ois oit not?.. musoic ois more than oimportant, oit has supreme place(oi moight be closer to the fact that lyroics are more oimportant, but at the end of the day, tois' oimportant that poseurs' way that "musoic ois the master and lyroics are the slaves" should never be; theres too many people not knoiwoin' lyroics of the songs or just knoiwoin' oit and feeloin' the surface of oit; thats crap!); the very tunes and melodoies foilloiw, they suppoirt the lyroics addoin' the emotions, addoin' the poiwer of sound, addoin' the possoiboiloity foir the lyroics to travel to the very heart of the loistener! the burnoin' rockoin' boppoin' feeloing; theres many bands that have great musoic, great Paddy's beats but cannot nearly match the message & soul that Shaneo oincoirpoirated oin hes lyroics!

a good song ois a statement, oit must come from the faoithful ones, oit must be woith essence oincoirpoirated and the ones who created oit must be the loivoing proof oit, to loive the musoic, the attoitude!

I think your over complicating matters.

Paddy Song = Song from Ireland.

Mark, I´m afraid you´re over-simplyfying things

If I come to Ireland and I wrote some industrial song, is it a paddy song? I doubt that...

Paddy Song = song penned/performed by Paddy...

G C G D?

Mick Molloy wrote:G C G D?

Yeah these three chords (not necessarily in that order) are the key to make paddy songs:

- Paddy Rolling Stone
- Rock 'n' Roll Paddy
- Poor Paddy
- Paddy Public Enemy No. 1

did I miss one?

- Night Paddy Murphy died
- Paddy's Lament

and Mick Molloy's self-penned 'Paddy's shagging sheep',
witty song, good tune, fine feel
..
..
and the list of titles goes on


Mick's song is definitely a Paddy song, to me at least, despite it being written outside Ireland by a Dutch bloke

another example: Greenland Whalefishers, not a drop of Irish blood in their Norwegian veins, but 4 cds full of great Paddy songs, again, as far as I'm concerned

whereas even Shane has written songs that, whatever their merits, I wouldn't classify as Paddy songs

so much for the being-'OIrish' argument: being Irish, it seems to me, is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for writing Paddy songs

as concerns the traditional instruments argument:

for one I don't know too many contemporary Paddy songs in which the harp, emblemetical of Ireland and its national darkish drink, so definitely traditional one, is used,

whereas secondly the box/accordion (one of the youngest instruments on the globe) and, to my knowledge, the banjo don't have that long a history in 'Oirish' music


which leaves the question unanswered as yet

Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore

Hahaha I even forgot my own song which has g c g d as well

Mick Molloy wrote:Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore

Hahaha I even forgot my own song which has g c g d as well

that's what friends are for, Mick, but now do me a favour in return and contribute to an answer to my question

sure g c g d has been used in blues and elsewhere too

PADDYgoesDUTCH wrote:...even Shane has written songs that...I wouldn't classify as Paddy songs

IrishRover wrote:

PADDYgoesDUTCH wrote:...even Shane has written songs that...I wouldn't classify as Paddy songs

Yeah sure, several tracks on The Snake for instance

And from what I read up about him and The Pogues, he at one stage wanted to have a go at techno. Had he had his way, would you have still called that Paddy just because it was penned by good old Shane ??