The Medusa Fora

Maija wrote:Me too. And I'm normally very picky when it comes to voices.

Ditto.. I think Dave King is an interestingly driven man. I quite like their music, in fact, I wish I could write anything half as good as they do. Tobacco Island is a fine song for example.
And, regarding the never-ending debate : there ARE only so many notes, cadences, riffs, motifs, and things out there. Sooner or later they get re-used. By the logic used by some folks (like folk purists for example), The Pogues themselves made considerable 'borrowings' from the trad music corpus. How 'original' was that? By MY standards it was HIGHLY original, but others may disagree. Good luck to 'em and fuck the begrudgers.

georgecat wrote:

goodbar wrote:they're not all that much like the pogues, but they're not that original either.

I don't think you can call any artist original. All artists get their ideas, music, inspiration from something. And Flogging Molly is just Flogging Molly. You could call them a rip-off if you wanted, but then you could call the Sex Pistols a rip off of the New York Dolls, or Jerry Lee Lewis a rip off of Elvis. Neither would exsist without the other that influenced them.

all i mean is that to me a lot of irish-punk bands sound pretty much the same. it's like emo.

goodbar wrote:all i mean is that to me a lot of irish-punk bands sound pretty much the same.

So do a lot of pop bands. Not to speak about hip-hop/rap, techno and such. And many rock bands sound pretty much the same to my ears too.
As Fintan and Georgecat said, it is almost impossible to be really "original" today - nearly each new piece of music resembles something that has already been there. I guess that good lyrics and pleasant tunes are enough to make a band highly enjoyable - no matter if their music can be called "pioneering" or not. Listening to music is about enjoyment above all, isn't it?

I am glad that someone brought this topic up. I have been a Pogues fan for about 16 years or so. A couple years ago I felt a longing for some new Pogues material. Since there was none when I heard about Molly I bought most of their stuff, listened enthusiastically and went to see them when they came through DC. I definitely enjoy their Irish rock and roll but I could not help but find many similarities with the Pogues and several key differences that unfortunately are not in FM's favor.

The obvious similarities are 1) the instrumentation, with the addition of the fiddle by FM, 2) the subject matter of the songs and 3) the tradiditional Irish/ punk market niche that both bands occupy. I enjoyed the similarities for a time but after a short while they made FM seem so derivitave that they are almost unlistenable to my ears. Their focus on nautical subjects ala the Rum, Sodomy -era Pogues and their remake of Fiesta (AKA Sentimental Johnny) are especially bold in their "borrowing".

King is not even close to MacGowan as a songwriter and the band is fairly flat compared with the Pogues. FM's addition of a heavily distorted guitar is a nice and unique touch. The guitar and King's inclusion of overt political statements makes songs like Screaming at the Wailing Wall worthwile.

The most troubling aspects of FM are the band's cynicism and its failure to give credit where credit is due. After I read the biography of Dave King that traced his career from heavy metal singer for Fastway to destitute bar employee to frontman for FM I couldn't help but think that he keenly observed that there was a void left by the Pogues in the US Irish American community and he sought to exploit it. That's not the worst thing one could do but at the very least I would expect such a band to acknowledge their immidiate roots the way the Pogues acknowledge and embrace the Dubliners. To my knowlede FM has never made any mention of the debt that they owe to the Pogues which is shameful and an insult to their fans' intelligence. We Americans may have a limited sense of history but some of us remember the Pogues and will never forget them.

glonn wrote:To my knowlede FM has never made any mention of the debt that they owe to the Pogues which is shameful and an insult to their fans' intelligence. .

But they do. When talking to most of them they all love Shane and the Pogues. Last year they even wanted to go but somehow wanted to be with their families around Xmas. Who can blame them when you are on tour so long?

Mick Molloy wrote:But they do. When talking to most of them they all love Shane and the Pogues. Last year they even wanted to go but somehow wanted to be with their families around Xmas. Who can blame them when you are on tour so long?

It's obvious that they are fans but that doesn't change the fact that they should give credit where it is due. At the DC Pogues shows this year the recorded music before featured heavily the Dubliners including Dirty Old Town. That was a very clear acknowledgement of the Pogues musical inheritance. A Flogging Molly tune was also played which was a very classy thing to include. I wish FM would do the same.

But that's just one of those things: they say they are more influenced by Luke Kelly, Joe Strummer, Bob Marley, Johnny Cash etc. And you can hear Pogues songs before FM gigs as well as Tossers, Murphys, Neck and many more

glonn wrote:

Mick Molloy wrote:But they do. When talking to most of them they all love Shane and the Pogues. Last year they even wanted to go but somehow wanted to be with their families around Xmas. Who can blame them when you are on tour so long?

It's obvious that they are fans but that doesn't change the fact that they should give credit where it is due. At the DC Pogues shows this year the recorded music before featured heavily the Dubliners including Dirty Old Town. That was a very clear acknowledgement of the Pogues musical inheritance. A Flogging Molly tune was also played which was a very classy thing to include. I wish FM would do the same.

Glad you liked the DC songs. I was in the DJ booth helping pick the songs.

glonn wrote:

Mick Molloy wrote:But they do. When talking to most of them they all love Shane and the Pogues. Last year they even wanted to go but somehow wanted to be with their families around Xmas. Who can blame them when you are on tour so long?

It's obvious that they are fans but that doesn't change the fact that they should give credit where it is due. At the DC Pogues shows this year the recorded music before featured heavily the Dubliners including Dirty Old Town. That was a very clear acknowledgement of the Pogues musical inheritance. A Flogging Molly tune was also played which was a very classy thing to include. I wish FM would do the same.

I don't want to add flame to the fire, but thats the thing, as said above, none of the Pogues members even choose the music so I'd hardly say it's a homage to the bands in the first place.

FM are playing in manchester in july

As well as the Hootenanny July 4th weekend in SoCal. (with the Living End and a ton of other bands)

Niall wrote:FM are playing in manchester in july

When and where? I must go.

Heather wrote:

Niall wrote:FM are playing in manchester in july

When and where? I must go.

Manchester Academy 2, 11th July, just found out, tickets £12 each.

glonn wrote:The obvious similarities are 1) the instrumentation, with the addition of the fiddle by FM, 2) the subject matter of the songs and 3) the tradiditional Irish/ punk market niche that both bands occupy. I enjoyed the similarities for a time but after a short while they made FM seem so derivitave that they are almost unlistenable to my ears. Their focus on nautical subjects ala the Rum, Sodomy -era Pogues .

I agree, they try too hard. His voice tries too be OIRISH if you know what i mean. Shane never tried to affect his vocal, it is just HIS accent. They sound too clean, no soul.

Fr. McGreer wrote:

glonn wrote:The obvious similarities are 1) the instrumentation, with the addition of the fiddle by FM, 2) the subject matter of the songs and 3) the tradiditional Irish/ punk market niche that both bands occupy. I enjoyed the similarities for a time but after a short while they made FM seem so derivitave that they are almost unlistenable to my ears. Their focus on nautical subjects ala the Rum, Sodomy -era Pogues .

I agree, they try too hard. His voice tries too be OIRISH if you know what i mean. Shane never tried to affect his vocal, it is just HIS accent. They sound too clean, no soul.

In all fairness to the guy, he is from Dublin. It's not that he tries too hard for me, he just doesn't have the voice.