BP Fallon/RTE interview 1985

[johnfoyle]

Hopefully you all weren't waiting for my comments because , as you can see, I've rather taken my time about it - sorry! Lots of excuses but I won't bore you with that.

A hundred of the 259 pages of this book are the sources and index and it shows. Sean does explore and define a lot of topics but does so through the weaving together of a staggering quantity of information. At first I found it heavy going as the sentences seemed to get longer and longer. After a while, however, the style of presentation served to get you totally involved with the topics and just lost in it.

The Pogues are admirably chronicled in this manner. Beautiful turns of phrases like '...MacGowan would admit to his own sentimentality, a condition that rendered him susceptible to that quixotic migrant mindset in which an idealised Hibernia acts as Edenic 'other' to Albion's assumed dystopia' (p.82) contexualise a blizzard of references and quotes. Valid as all that may be it does assume that the average Pogues fan was reading and taking in every piece of media coverage going. As someone who has just spent a few weeks (one my excuses) clearing an attic of c.20 years of clutter, including heaps of publications, I can't help thinking that a feature of the 1980s/90s has been the sheer abundance of media outlets. To put it simply, its probable a lot of fans listen more to the music than reading/watch/listen to all the coverage. Time and again I found my self thinking that a sometimes straight forward piece of music making was being subjected to a intellectual rigour that it never looked for in the first place and would survive well with out. However ,fair dues to Sean, he's complied it all and it's all in this book if you want it.

Thrilled as I was to be quoted in the coverage of the 1985 BP Fallon incident I was interested to see that he quotes Cait in relation to that programme. The source notes tell us it dates back to a 2005 interview. That predates the unearthing of the seeming only surviving recording (mine) of the show and her (as she said in a '08 interview) giving up the booze in 2007. She has rubbished anything she had said before '07 , therefore seeming to invalidate the '05 comments. It would be interesting to hear what the new, improved Cait , as her erudite contributions to to the View tv show have shown, has to say about it.

In short, a engrossing read.

[philipchevron]

In fairness, it is not an academic's job to accept at face value any assertion made by any performer, whether in 1985, 2005 or 2007, drunk or sober. The most interesting subjects frequently make complex and contradictory statements about themselves and their work and Campbell is pretty good at collecting all angles. He records Johnny Lydon's brainless and atypical criticism of Shane, for example, but follows it with Shane's own take on the Lydon remarks in such a way that Shane's defence trumps Lydon's comments: Campbell does not feel it necesssary to point this out, though. Nor does he always accept Shane at face value either, often contrasting his comments with those by himself or colleagues which blatantly contradict the original assertion.

But this is also the meat and drink of the academic: he knows that the core truth may often lie somewhere within those contradictions, and this is why such exhaustive research is required. You're almost certainly correct that Pogues fans would represent only a small portion of this book's readership, but that too is fine, as Sean Campbell does not write for Pogues fans: he is part of a process, an ongoing academic interrogation that seeks to find greater cultural meaning and context from pop cultural events, which never occur in a vacuum. He would be the first to say his book seeks not to be definitive but to properly open a scholarly conversation about the post-colonial cause and effect of the contribution of second-generation or immigrant Irish musicians to the wider cultural picture.

[johnfoyle]

Well said Phil . You make ,with your usual elegance , a point that my clumsy words could only hope too ! I should , of course, have noted that Sean collates many points of views. The book has made me listen anew to the music covered so it works on that level too.

[Sean Campbell]

Many thanks to Philip and John for your kind words on the book. I've pasted below a couple of links to recent pieces on the book.

All the best,
Sean.

http://www.culturenorthernireland.org/a ... lish-heart

http://www.nuthousepunks.com/blog/?p=2456

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/wee ... 07057.html

[johnfoyle]

It's coming up on 30 years since this -

The RTE archives have posted some photos -

http://www.rte.ie/archives/2015/0820/72 ... -the-lash/


The dialogue from the show is here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWxJyYA697s

[johnfoyle]

Photos by Joe Shutter, taken in, I reckon, Trinity College, Dublin, under the camponile in the centre square.







Pogue Mania!

Record Mirror Sept. 21 1985


To some it's a case of Dublin your money; to others just Mahone sweet Mahone. Andy Strickland and Joe Shutter catch up with the Pogues on their Irish tour.

You'd have to go a long way to find a band who have had such universal acclaim as the Pogues have with their LP 'Rum, Sodomy And the Lash'. At least that's how it seems sat on the English side of the Irish sea. Over here in Dublin things aren't quite so straightforward. The Pogues, you see, have put a few noses out of joint among Ireland's crop of seasoned traditional musicians. Hell, they even admit themselves that they're not musicians' and tonight they're getting some right old stick as they appear in a radio phone-in hosted by BP Fallon, Ireland's hippest DJ.

One day later the band have read all about it in the dailies and they're a bit pissed off with the whole affair.

"They were asking us questions that were impossible to answer," explains Shane. "It led to confusion on both sides and it was just the wrong place and atmosphere to have a discussion on Irish music. If it'd been more relaxed, with a bar, then it would have been OK.

"We did get accused of being anti-Irish racists and ersatz Irishmen and the person who accused us of this was originally from Clare or somewhere. We're not racists of any kind."

Spider nods in agreement. "It would have been a better idea to just make it a conversation rather than have us all sat round a table like a bloody press conference. I think the trouble is that a lot of things that have appeared about us in the press have said that we're an Irish band and a couple of articles have said that all the members of the band are Irish, which isn't the case."

To be fair to Dublin's musicians, nut all of them see the Pogues as some wicked manifestation of cultural imperialism. Banjo man Jem Finer is relieved and flattered that the Pogues have some fans among Ireland's musical elite.

"It's obviously nice if they approve, but one also tends to meet some who are so pedantic and purist that it's no real insult if they don't approve.

"Some of them think we're abusing the music, but I think they misunderstand that we're not trying to play the music in the way they understand it, anyway.

"We met the Dubliners when we were in Austria and they were really friendly. They'd heard the first album and they were really interested, which was nice because they're quite a big influence on us."

There's certainly a buzz about the Pogues in Dublin tonight. Does it mean more to the band themselves playing here, I ask Shane? "It means more to me because my old man's here," he smiles.

"It depends," Spider adds. "There are places in England that are a bit special, places like Liverpool and London and also when we play in Scotland. I suppose the most upfront reaction we get is here in Dublin and in Glasgow."

As one of the born and bred Dubliners in the band, Philip is particularly excited. "In as much as playing your home town is always an event it's obviously a bit special, but there's a helluva lot of interest in the band in Dublin so there's an atmosphere that you don't always get."

A few hours later as Joe Shutter and I squeeze into Dublin's SFX hall (an old church dance hall originally called Saint Francis Xavier hall — even the church realised that SFX sounded hipper) it's obvious that the band and the promoter have underestimated their drawing power.

It's a sell out and the crowd locked outside aren't too happy about it. As the band launch into their opening few songs, the doors burst open two or three times and a rush of ticketless fans heave into the already packed hall.

The Pogues and the fans are loving it even though the set itself seems a little lop-sided in places — you can't jig away to more than five up-tempo Pogues songs in a row without becoming a health hazard to those around you.

One of the highlights of the set is the band's version of the classic Ewan MacColl song 'Dirty Old Town', the latest Pogues single.

"We used to do it ages ago when we started," reveals Shane. "It was such a lousy version that we dropped it. Then we decided to try it again and Elvis Costello decided to mould it into a hit single and look how it's bulleting up the charts." He roars with laughter revealing those terrible stumps.

Talking of singles in chart terms, did you expect your singles to be top 20 records, Shane?

"Look, I never even expected to get paid more than 20 quid a night for doing this," he says. "It's no surprise because if you're not getting played on the radio your records aren't going to sell very well. It's disappointing, but what can you do about it?"

Jem agrees. "That’s the result of the reactionary nature of Radio One. 'Sally Maclennane' got to number 50 without being played on daytime radio, which isn't bad going."

There's plenty of good original material in the Pogues' set. The likes of Shane's 'A Pair Of Brown Eyes' stand shoulder to shoulder with the classics they cover in their set and on record. Would Shane like to think of people keeping his songs alive in pubs and clubs long after he and the Pogues are a thing of the past?

"As long as I'm getting the royalties, yeah," he laughs. "I think my songs are brilliant compared to something like a Howard Kershaw record, but I don't think they're as good as 'Dirty Old Town' or something. You just strive for something and I don't think I've got there yet. They're getting better though."

There's no doubting the Pogues are 'hot' in the music business at the moment. Why does Jem think this is the case?

"I don't know how much of it has to do with a climate within music at the moment, but it seems to me it's like a snowball effect inasmuch as the more attention you get, the more attention you get. I think we're more than a fad. It's proved by the age of some of the songs, because some of them are 200 or 300 years old.

"Since our first gig in October '82, I always thought we'd work well because there are elements in the music that are irresistible. They're such good songs, there's something there for everyone, for people who like music, people who think they're trendy, football fans, because there's a lot of feeling in our music and there's no clever-dick stuff."

The gruelling schedule of gigs they set themselves (tonight's Dublin gig is their 100th this year) has done wonders for their abilities as both musicians and performers. Shane's songwriting has already been picked up on in the States, where a cover version of 'A Pair Of Brown Eyes' has just been recorded and next week sees them appearing on Ireland's prestigious 'Late Late Show'.

A potential Sex Pistols/Bill Grundy situation would seem to be on the cards as the band have been asked to play 'The Old Main Drag', one reason for the 'offensive' stickers put on their album by certain record shops. Shane doesn't agree that it could upset a few people.

"If anybody hears swear words when we appear on RTE," he assures me, "it'll be like when people see apparitions in the middle of the nine o'clock news or whatever. If I swear on RTE — I don't know if I could live with meself."

With this he bursts into another stump-baring laugh which turns heads in the hotel foyer. The Pogues are no fools, contrary to popular belief.