BP Fallon/RTE interview 1985

[ibeh]

Dear Pogues Forum,

I am currently writing various pieces on The Pogues for the forthcoming Encyclopaedia of Music in Ireland. In this context, I am trying to locate the band’s interview on the BP Fallon radio show (broadcast on RTE, 21 September 1985). (Neither BP nor RTE seem to have access to a copy).

I wondered if anyone on the forum might have access to this item. If so, I would be extremely grateful if it was possible to exchange a copy of this item (I could send on a copy of my last book – a history of Irish rock).

The only other items I have not been able to locate during my research are the South of Watford TV show from 1984, and the 1984 interview on The Tube. Any assistance that members could offer with these items would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

All best,
Sean Campbell.

[philipchevron]

Dear Pogues Forum,

I am currently writing various pieces on The Pogues for the forthcoming Encyclopaedia of Music in Ireland. In this context, I am trying to locate the band’s interview on the BP Fallon radio show (broadcast on RTE, 21 September 1985). (Neither BP nor RTE seem to have access to a copy).

I wondered if anyone on the forum might have access to this item. If so, I would be extremely grateful if it was possible to exchange a copy of this item (I could send on a copy of my last book – a history of Irish rock).

The only other items I have not been able to locate during my research are the South of Watford TV show from 1984, and the 1984 interview on The Tube. Any assistance that members could offer with these items would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

All best,
Sean Campbell.

Just to jog memories a bit on this, Sean is looking for the infamous "press conference" style encounter with the Irish media. It is, among other things, notorious for the exchanges with Noel Hill, the concertina player, who accuses the Pogues of being "unlovely" and "an abortion of Irish music", positions we forcefully dispute.

[philipchevron]

Just trying this one more time.

If anybody has a copy to loan us - however rough sounding - of the infamous 1985 Pogues press conference at RTE, Dublin, please let me know. This was the event which was broadcast on BP Fallon's radio show - the BP Fallon Orchestra - and was the Pogues' introduction to the massed gents and ladies of the Irish media. This was the occasion the concertina player Noel Hill, in particular, called our music "unlovely" and "an abortion" and we were, in general, accused of the most base paddywhackery imaginable. Basically, had Yeats been there, he would almost certainly have thundered "you have disgraced yourselves again" at the assembled Irish journos and musos. Anyway, a fella called Sean Campbell, who has written a number of scholarly theses on Irish rock, wishes to revisit the moment and figure how it now stands, 25 years later, against what was subsequently known about the Pogues' work and general impact. He has had no luck tracking down a tape of the show from any of the potential sources, including BP Fallon and RTE themselves, so he has sought out my help. As this press conference is perhaps the Pogues' equivalent of Dylan at Newport, I'm quite curious myself to see how it stands after all these years. So if you have a copy of the radio programme, in any format, or know somebody who has, can you please drop me a message via this site's Personal Message system. I'd very much appreciate it and would of course, compensate for your help.

First person to deliver the goods gets a pre-release set of 5 CDs of Just Look Them Straight In The Eye and say Pogue Mahone from me. This set of discs still includes the two Chieftains/Pogues live tracks which were left off the box set when we ran out of time to get clearances from Paddy Moloney. They are the final reference discs used before we settled on the eventual running order and content, which means that only the members of the Pogues have copies. Subsequent sets advertised for sale on eBay are later versions, with the final mastering and omitting the Pogues/Chieftains tracks.

Thanks.

[philipchevron]

bump

[Low D]

I don't have this, but i'm just thinking how fun that woulda been to have on the box set, a good opener or something...

[johnfoyle]

I was there and have this - more later via PM.

[philipchevron]

And indeed.............we have a winner. Thanks John

[johnfoyle]

Here's a 35 minute soundfile, courtesy of my brother Martin, of the dialogue from this show -

http://www.mediafire.com/?o1fgthmae0y


The show was recorded on Thursday Sept.5 '85, broadcast on Sat. Sept 21 '85 , according to the label I handwrote on the cassette. The 'public' tickets were issued via a 'phone-in on the Dave Fanning radio show on RTE 2 FM on , I think, Tues.Sept. 3rd. Aged 20 that year, I was interested in the Pogues both because I liked their records and because of their involvement with Elvis Costello, then( as now )my primary musical interest. Arriving at the RTE radio centre in the leafy environs of Montrose in south Dublin, at about 8PM on a sunny Thursday evening , after a day's work as a store's assistant in a department store , I seem to remember there being a bit of a gathering of teenagers at the steps up to the buildings entrance. A uniformed man had a list of winners of the 'phone in. Contrary to the assurance I had been given when I was, apparently, amongst the first 40 phone-ins my name was not on the list. I wasn't going to protest much. I was mere years from a strict education environment which was succeeded by a equally draconian work situation. In short, I was used to doing what I was told and deferring to authority. I must have shown disappointment or something because all of a sudden the peak capped jobsworth made a grumbling noise, decided he'd had his little power trip and said something like 'Oh gone on , if you want'. It was a messy start to the evening.

We were ushered into a semi basement studio; I don't remember any natural light. Rows of plastic stacking chairs faced elevated tables. On each seat was a faded photocopy of a Sunday Tribune article, by BP Fallon, about the Pogues . Microphones jostled for space with glasses, ashtrays and bottles of alcohol. I can't remember if The Pogues and Frank Murray and BP Fallon were already seated, along with the journalists/ musicians etc. I knew no one else there. My work colleagues were much older and I had little contact with school friends who were all, unlike me, at college. Music, and related matters, were all that made my then rather isolated and miserable life worthwhile. I burden you with all this rather mawkish stuff in an effort to put into context my contribution to what followed.

The c.35 minutes of 'discussion' that was broadcast , interspersed with tracks from early Pogues releases, was a masterpiece of editing of about an hour of what can only be called attrition. The Pogues sat behind the tables, drinking and smoking and giving us sideways glares. We now know, of course, that they were all young people dealing as best they could with fame and its attendant pressures. Recourse to stimulants of all kinds were an understandable means of doing so. Most of us 'members of the public' were used to getting our 'pop stars' neatly packaged, with tidy quotes in coherent profiles. What we were seeing was a bit of a shock.

The tone was set when, in a moment unbroadcasted, a Pogue ( not Shane ; Spider , maybe?) barked at us ' Were ye expecting a few songs?' and turned and smirked at whomever was next to him. No one really responded, besides maybe a few half hearted 'yeahs'. BP then made some intro comments, stuff like saying we shouldn't swear etc. The programme then commenced, with the various exchanges, as spliced together for broadcast. The sense of hostility was stifling. Every exchange was laden down with the anticipation of a scowl and a slap down. A few cogent points were made, mostly by Frank Murray and Phil Chevron.

As broadcast my contribution is rather pivotal. It didn't seem so on the night, just another scrappy aside really. My simplistic obsession with all the errata of musical matters made me ask , in a series of strangulated verbiage, Cait about her Pride Of The Cross recordings. She briefly and contemptuously slapped me down. Knowing now what's known about her stressed out life at the time, it's understandable. At the time it hurt, and it must really have shown. My faltering voice on the recording is aural illustration. Looking back to the control room , I could see Dave Fanning looking down , mouth agape , hand to his chin. Only for a later contribution it probably would not have been broadcast. As the proceedings wrapped up Joe Ambrose (a music management figure/character about town of the time) decided to put the boot into Cait, specifically citing her response to my question. The infamous manners of a pig comment was made, Cait made her 'oink oink' response and a perfect sound bite just had to be used. Amid embarrassed looks all round BP made some finishing comments and we all got up, amidst noisy chair legs and jeery comments, to leave. Joe Ambrose saw me passing him, broke away from a conversation and said something to me like ' she couldn't be let get away with that'. I mumbled something and moved on, just dying to get out of the place.

I haven't thought about this show in years. Looking back I'm so glad I'm no longer the person I was then. We've all done a lot growing up since then. As to whether it's a 'Dylan/Newport' type landmark moment I really cannot say - I just do not have the required remove to do so.

[philipchevron]

Here's a 35 minute soundfile, courtesy of my brother Martin, of the dialogue from this show -

http://www.mediafire.com/?o1fgthmae0y


I'm going to have a listen this evening and post some reflections later.

And indeed, I've just realised, hearing it for the first time ever, that some of the more interesting hostile exchanges - on both sides of the argument - were edited out. Notoriously, at one point, Andrew challenged one of the invited audience members - I'm afraid I can't remember who, though conceivably it's Noel Hill or Joe Ambrose again - 'what it comes down to basically, is are you a better fucker than me', reducing the entire debate down to something of a non sequitur on sexual prowess, which is scarcely less elevated than where it was already pitched, but I suppose it was naive of me to assume RTE would ever let it through. It did, however, give a better measure of just how heated the whole thing actually became, and why the episode caused such bad blood. The hostility towards the band had been growing for weeks and, while BP Fallon thoughtfully provided a number of people who spoke eloquently in the band's favour, we definitely felt ambushed by the negative questioning, which is why, Shane and Frank Murray apart, we are so poor at addressing some of the more valid questions. We were, I think, genuinely shellshocked by the whole thing, and Cait's bad temper only managed to confuse the issue, toppling the whole thing over into farce.

Still, 's'rocknroll, innit......I'd quite forgotten it was the moment Terry joined the band.

[johnfoyle]

As you can see my edited in comments were posted parallel with Phils'. It's all a bit head wrecking . He's in New York, I'm in Dublin and we're listening to something that was , until this morning, in a dusty box in my attic. Isn't the 'net great!

[DzM]

Thank you for sharing this John. I am genuinely looking forward to hearing this infamous exchange that I have read about for nearly two decades.

[fluke]

the same as DZM.. Thanx for the effort John, I'm gonna listen this as soon as possible because I'm realy curious about it!

[philipchevron]

As you can see my edited in comments were posted parallel with Phils'. It's all a bit head wrecking . He's in New York, I'm in Dublin and we're listening to something that was , until this morning, in a dusty box in my attic. Isn't the 'net great!

Yes, but thank heavens we got our stories straight first.

[NewJerseyRich]

Very cool, Just gave it a listen before bed, what a great piece of Pogues history to surface. WOW was O'Riordan quite the B**ch! They were definately egging you on. Oh and damn your manager needed a muzzle! Great job back in the day boys, I loved hearing it. Thank you John.

Now I want the name of the guy that said Americans look for packaging of their bands before the music and give him a nice Doc Marten to the skull.

[Alex]

Thanks a lot for the upload, John!!

Great material!