Raise up, ye heroes!

[DownInTheGround]

Can't we all just try and get on for a change?

I will put the kettle on. I have some awesome pot, if that will help?

[Pyro]

Well, I'll throw my two eurocents in too.

I´m active member of several internet communities, and I´ve seen many of them fall...
This seems similar to me (no, it´s not metaphore, it happened like that): There was a great forum about love, sex, understanding and such things. Then, several troublemakers came in, and since the community was so friendly, they were treated rather nicely, and when I said, they should be banned (I was a mod), many people shouted I was a fascist (funny how frequent insult this is). But the mood got worse overall, and some good people started to leave. Imbeciles grew. We started fighting it, but it was too late. These fools started with occasional hacker attacks, and after many repairs of the forum, we decided to leave the community destroyed. It would have no meaning to restore it again.

There were similar events. Yet, on fora, where you insult someony only twice (yellow-red card system), there were not such problems. It's not about saying "fuck off" - that can be friendly. But when you have a fight, you have to deal with it fast. These yellow-red system fora with rather strict rules were not unfriendly, that´s important. They were not cold etc., as many portrait "totaliarian" systems. There simply weren´t these problems.

The problem with freedom in general is, when people get too much of it, they'll feel invincible, and will get very nasty. They even start insulting those who gave them that freedom.

I find it very nasty of certain people, to insult DzM openly. I´m no big authority lover, but I feel he´s got only one big mistake - too much benevolence.
I was red with anger (didn´t look into mirror, but I guess) when Oirish told him these things he did. Oirish absolutely consciously violated the rules for how much...a year? He didn´t get banned (and there was some lobby for his ban - yet DzM still didn´t do it.).

I would like to tell those "pro-freedom" people around here - I've seen a lot with virtual eyes, I have been a mod on several (even 10-20k people) fora. I have certain level of experience with people - and I tell you - this is no good. Freedom is good. But when you start flames, violate rules for a long time, you should be banned IMMEDIATELY. There´s no but. But means more fights, more bad mood. Bann means a short time of "chaos", and then peace. And people will think twice before doing anything stupid. This is not about policy of terror, as some would call it - this is simply a thing, which helps to protect a community. If rules are violated, we don´t have to do them.

Ugh, this got longer and I got more unhappy...I just wanted to say, that it´s neccesary to fight certain elements in "e-society" in general. If they get too much space, problems get bigger (did you notice how many brawls did we have with few certain people in last months?). Foe button helps a little. I don´t believe it´s THE solution though.

I´d like to ask people to think of consequences of freedom...as it´s not the best thing under the sun.

[Irishbookish]

Well said, Pyro - some good points. I've had several occasions recently where certain members randomly abuse me for no reason and if I happen to get fed up enough to reply, I am abused again every time I do. Some people are using Medusa as a Spleen Venting Forum. I agree that there needs to be a more definitive system. It 's not about freedom of speech or opinions, it's about insults. I've seen this happen before as well - one huge US Writer's Forum had to close down, and there are lots of others. A large percentage of Medusa are really intelligent, funny people! Bring back the stocks...??

[jennylois]

Pyro, you keep harping on about OIrish, but you don't see anything wrong with TOSCS comments? Am I the only one who has noticed the sexist remarks that have been posted from TOSCS? OK he is very young but that doesn't mean he should be allowed to slag people here, particularly women. He says that things have been worse here since Irishbookish and I have started posting. Why is that? Because we actually speak our mind? You can't handle that TOSCS?

I have tried to treat his comments as a joke and ignore him, but I'm not going to shut up to keep the peace anymore when he just keeps going on and is allowed to. How can Gurrier be banned when TOSCS is allowed to say whatever he likes? He doesn't want to put anyone on his ignore list cos he wants to keep slagging them. He has admitted before that he likes to do this. He says he likes creating trouble. I like a debate but he isn't debating about anything intelligent, just putting shit on others, and take a look everyone at previous comments of his, he is particularly offensive to some of the women here.

TOSCS I would like to see you slag off one of the other forum members who defend OIrish, I know you won't, you don't have the guts. You only have the guts to do it to women.

Heather you said can't we try to get along. I have tried but I'm bloody fed up. For all the shitful comments from TOSCS, only once was he mildly reminded to look at the rules.

I feel like I can't be bothered with it here anymore, it's not fun now, but I don't want to give shitface toscs the satisfaction. I vote that fuckhead toscs gets banned, and in the meantime, FUCK OFF toscs! You're a shitful little tosser with no brains to post anything worthwhile. And your joke thread is the worse on the whole site.

[jennylois]

And one more thing toscs, I climb up to the Royal yard (the highest one) to set sails on the largest square rigged clipper ship in Sydney as it sails through the rough waters of Sydney Heads, so don't talk to me about fucking knitting.

[TheIrishRover]

What a load of nonsense. Some of the most active fora I've ever been on were completely unmonitored and loaded with ten and twenty page threads full of nothing but personal insults back and forth!

The problem isn't when freedom is taken too far. The problem is when freedom is allowed to go to go here with some folks but further distances with others. It's not like what Gurrier said was that offensive really. The Winehouse thread wasn't too bad. It's just a bunch of nonsense all around on the part of the janitors and all.

[Phoist]

Do you not think it might be the content of your posts rather than your vagina that annoys people Jenny? Because TOSCS can be a bit of a pain in the ass from your perspective do hate all men? I mean come on. Reactionary shit like this is far worse than out and out insulting people.

[Fionn MacCool]

Jenny, I haven't laughed so much at a Medusa post in ages comedy gold love, comedy gold

Pyro, you keep harping on about OIrish, but you don't see anything wrong with TOSCS comments? Am I the only one who has noticed the sexist remarks that have been posted from TOSCS?

I'd be surprised if anyone else shares your devastatingly sharp eye for the quare stuff

OK he is very young but that doesn't mean he should be allowed to slag people here, particularly women. He says that things have been worse here since Irishbookish and I have started posting. Why is that? Because we actually speak our mind? You can't handle that TOSCS?

I hope that one day, when I grow up to be a fierce, outspoken internet warrior like yourself, I hope that then, and only then, will I be able to 'handle it'. Show me the path Jenny, show me the way.

I have tried to treat his comments as a joke and ignore him, but I'm not going to shut up to keep the peace anymore when he just keeps going on and is allowed to. How can Gurrier be banned when TOSCS is allowed to say whatever he likes? He doesn't want to put anyone on his ignore list cos he wants to keep slagging them.

IrishRover is on my ignore list, it means I don't have to scroll so far to skip his posts.

He has admitted before that he likes to do this. He says he likes creating trouble.

Objection your Honour, the prosecution has turned this courtroom into a House of Lies.

I like a debate but he isn't debating about anything intelligent, just putting shit on others

An interesting metaphor if ever I read one. Perhaps a product of the famous Australian subtly and class I've heard so much about?

and take a look everyone at previous comments of his, he is particularly offensive to some of the women here.

And particularly inoffensive to the rest of them.

TOSCS I would like to see you slag off one of the other forum members who defend OIrish

How benevolent of you.

I know you won't, you don't have the guts.

I feel like I can't be bothered with it here anymore, it's not fun now, but I don't want to give shitface toscs the satisfaction. I vote that fuckhead toscs gets banned, and in the meantime, FUCK OFF toscs! You're a shitful little tosser with no brains to post anything worthwhile.

This is what I like to call a 'Linkin Park moment'.

And your joke thread is the worse on the whole site.

That's simply the worse thing anyone's ever said about me

And one more thing toscs, I climb up to the Royal yard (the highest one) to set sails on the largest square rigged clipper ship in Sydney as it sails through the rough waters of Sydney Heads

Well shiver me timbers, aren't you quite the pirate.

so don't talk to me about fucking knitting.

What do you do when the sails tear, Cap'n?

[jennylois]

I will put the kettle on. I have some awesome pot, if that will help?

Yes, thank you, black with no sugar.

[Fionn MacCool]

I will put the kettle on. I have some awesome pot, if that will help?

Yes, thank you, black with no sugar.

Coffee or tea

[jennylois]

Do you not think it might be the content of your posts rather than your vagina that annoys people Jenny? Because TOSCS can be a bit of a pain in the ass from your perspective do hate all men? I mean come on. Reactionary shit like this is far worse than out and out insulting people.

Now where do you get the idea that I hate all men just because I have retaliated to toscs?

[Guest]

I think a main point being made here is why does one rule apply to one but not to the other. People should also discern the difference between a good healthy ribbing and plain, straight out bullying. Give and take. I don\\\'t think I have spoken out or said anything unwarranted. There has been no concerted meaness involved from my part. Maybe there is a strand of metaphorical truth in the \\\"tongueing\\\" comment? Maybe the choice of language wasn\\\'t to everyone\\\'s palette but maybe certain individuals needed a light shone on them in regards to the concerted bullying that was taking place and this is what is took for it to happen. For a long time there was a elephant of sorts sitting in the living room and nothing was said, just a whole lot of rug sweeping. I think it\\\'s great that DZM and others have gone to the effort to provide a place where their can be discussions like this. My freedom to express my own thoughts are my own though. I don\\\'t think people should be expected to sit silent on somebody elses whim and fancy no matter how ugly the truth. Same rules should apply to all

Gurrier

[LittleCupcakes]

I think it\\\'s great that DZM and others have gone to the effort to provide a place where their can be discussions like this. My freedom to express my own thoughts are my own though. I don\\\'t think people should be expected to sit silent on somebody elses whim and fancy no matter how ugly the truth. Same rules should apply to all

Gurrier

You don't have the freedom to express all your thoughts here. DzM gets to decide (on his whim and fancy if he desires, rightly or wrongly) what or who stays or goes.

All should be treated equally, of course, but in the end it's just not your call.

By the way, I've seen DzM and I've seen a vagina. DzM is no vagina.

[Pyro]

What a load of nonsense. Some of the most active fora I've ever been on were completely unmonitored and loaded with ten and twenty page threads full of nothing but personal insults back and forth!

The problem isn't when freedom is taken too far. The problem is when freedom is allowed to go to go here with some folks but further distances with others. It's not like what Gurrier said was that offensive really. The Winehouse thread wasn't too bad. It's just a bunch of nonsense all around on the part of the janitors and all.

No, that was not a nonsense - actually, the first paragraph says what I think That´s the problem. I believe we need monitored and cleaned discussions.

Jennylois: Actually, I use Oirish just as an example of serious violation. I think TOSC can be a pain sometimes too too, but - it´s always as a reaction. It´s difference between people, who are asses all the time, and people, who behave not very kindly when provoked.
Besides - he is contributing to certain discussions on high level. And he did the FTP server (which I'm damn grateful for). It´s not like those who do stuff should be allowed to be rude, but I shink they should be treated a little bit differently.

[jennylois]

Besides - he is contributing to certain discussions on high level. And he did the FTP server (which I'm damn grateful for). It´s not like those who do stuff should be allowed to be rude, but I shink they should be treated a little bit differently.

So there IS a reason for toscs being allowed to be rude! And you actually ARE suggesting that he should be allowed to be rude. There is no other way that he can be treated 'differently' than to be allowed to say what he likes.