"dancing"

[Eric V]

Back in the day there was the pogo. Then slam dancing became more and more violent pushing and shoving. The mosh pit became a more localized, though not less violent, place where people who wanted to push and shove and hit each other could do their thing. But if you are on the edge of it you are going to get bumped. In addition, height adds a new dimension to the possibilities of "dancing" (or at least moving together with the crowd), and as part of that reduction of space between the act and the crowd, in the early punk shows, a tradition of stage diving was born. In some cases just getting up on stage (only to be escorted off) was/is allowed. And then there is crowd surfing -- getting launched by a fellow participant into the air and then being passed by the hands of others, above and across the crowd.

So, what do you Medusans think/do? Any interesting experiences, good/bad? Also, having seen some "No Stage Diving" and "No Crowd Surfing" stickers in some Popes footage lately, I'm wondering what the Pogues perspective is.

[dawson]

i once went on a 30 m crowd surf at an offspring gig at leeds festival

[philipchevron]

Back in the day there was the pogo. Then slam dancing became more and more violent pushing and shoving. The mosh pit became a more localized, though not less violent, place where people who wanted to push and shove and hit each other could do their thing. But if you are on the edge of it you are going to get bumped. In addition, height adds a new dimension to the possibilities of "dancing" (or at least moving together with the crowd), and as part of that reduction of space between the act and the crowd, in the early punk shows, a tradition of stage diving was born. In some cases just getting up on stage (only to be escorted off) was/is allowed. And then there is crowd surfing -- getting launched by a fellow participant into the air and then being passed by the hands of others, above asnd across the crowd.

So, what do you Medusans think/do? Any interesting experiences, good/bad? Also, having seen some "No Stage Diving" and "No Crowd Surfing" stickers in some Popes footage lately, I'm wondering what the Pogues perspective is.

We have discouraged stage participation ever since we failed to get insurance cover on Terry Woods's instruments, all of which have Druidic ancestry except the concertina, which belonged to Cuchulainn.

What yiz do beyond the security fence which contractually rings the stage is your own business.

[Mick Molloy]

I hate moshpits and crowdsurfing. If you want to hurt yourself then try S&M but at concerts innocent people get hurt so I ws wuite happy when I saw Point security being so damn harsh on crowdsurfers. I'd nevert seen something like that before in Germany, Holland, Belgium or France. Good on them.

Ow and by the way people on stage are shite too. I once had a drunk guy who thought he coul dsing the wild Rover with me on stage. Okay that;s fine but don't spill your fucking beer on my guitar cause you'll get hit between the eyes. Never seen the bloke at gigs after that for some reason

[Caukill]

I hate moshpits and crowdsurfing. If you want to hurt yourself then try S&M but at concerts innocent people get hurt

I'm with Mick on this. At the ripe old age of 36 i've served my time at roughly 600+ gigs including some pretty wild ones like the Exploited, the Meteors etc. etc. Jumping up & down is one thing but 'moshing/slamming' is another thing altogether. My take on it is it's usually 99.9% guys who have some sort of macho agenda. Okay, there's s'posed to be an unwritten code when you enter 'the pit' in that 'if anyone goes down you pick them up' BUT a) the Pit has to start / end somewhere and there's gonna be people on the outside of it that don't want to be and b) what's it all about really?-macho bullshit. Join a boxing club or something (but i suspect that'd be too confrontational for most partcipants).
In recent times there's been plenty of deaths and injurys at live music events largely as a result of people not knowing how the fuck to conduct themselves (see: Limp Bizkit @ Australia's 'Big day out' , Guns N Roses @ Donington , Roskilde 2000).
And if yr want to crowd surf (Wow, how cool!) expect a punch in the bollocks

[Eric V]

I'd nevert seen something like that before in Germany, Holland, Belgium or France.

Please clarify: you never saw strict security in those places, or you have not seen that kind of crowd behavior at those places?

[Eric V]

For me, its all about getting a good spot. To me, closer to the stage is better. At some point each foot comes at a cost. I remember a few times it wasn't moshing that was the problem... it was the massive force of thousands of people pushing toward the stage that caused me to fall back. I went down at a Clash stadium concert. You cannot push back against 1000+ people.

And at times the cost of holding my position has been that some shirtless moron came crashing into me now and then. This usually takes several times to trigger the fight or flight reaction. At this point in the show, I am now distracted from what I really want to do -- just enjoy the music. So next time I catch that moron heading my way, I put my shoulder into it and send him across the pit.

Having said that, I remember being a shirtless moron at one massive show as well, in a vast pit, I looked across and saw a very big girl with blood coming from her mouth (cut her lip open) and a very big smile. It was a primal kind of experience... covered in mud..... running into each other right in front of the stage.... moon above..... interesting stage set up and lighting (Janes Addiction -- first Lallapalooza tour) .... and great loud music.

[Mick Molloy]

I'd nevert seen something like that before in Germany, Holland, Belgium or France.

Please clarify: you never saw strict security in those places, or you have not seen that kind of crowd behavior at those places?

Yup strict security. Ow and by the way you don't need to mosh your way up to the stage. Just don't wash for a few days

[Cornish Andy]

For me a Pogues gig is all about being down the front jumping around like a lunatic, and I've been there countless times as well as at Shane & The Popes gigs. I just enjoy it. It's a great party atmosphere like nothing else.

And I'm referring here to Pogues gigs specifically. I've been to other gigs where it really is violent and nasty down the front. In my (considerable!) experience I really don't find it like that at Pogues gigs. Everyone is friendly, having a laugh, singing along, arms round each other. If you fall down, you do get picked up at a Pogues gig.

Obviously it isn't everyone's kind of thing, but in my view there are plenty of other places to stand or sit. I don't see the point in getting yourself right down to the front, then complaining about it when you know full well what goes on there.

By the way, I'm 34 and, despite being a tall fella, in no way 'macho'. I'm just down there enjoying myself.

[trashcity]

I hate moshpits and crowdsurfing.

Amen. whats wrong with a nice foxtrot eh?

[Aineen]

Now you're scaring me.... for those of us hovering around the half-century mark - should I bring my own security????

[territa]

:? Now you're scaring me.... for those of us hovering around the half-century mark - should I bring my own security????

no, but shoes are very important I couldn't have made it without my Doc Martens... and, maybe it was the venue -- in Glasgow everyone was there to have fun -- but my observation is that Pogues fans are better behaved than most. Fugazi shows excepted.

[carmens827]

i insist that i always be up front -- i do suffer jabs in the ribs sometimes .i hate the sweaty guys who press up against me--YUK!!!! once in awhile you also get beer sloshed on you as well.my shoes suffer the most though... BUT ALL SO WORTH THE PAIN!!!

yes--Territa---DOC MARTENS do come in handy!those shoes can take a beating and come out looking good

[Eric V]

..., but shoes are very important I couldn't have made it without my Doc Martens...

I took my older brother to a show last summer. I didn't think to tell him how to dress, and aside from his white flowered button down shirt looking out of place in a sea of green, plaid, leather, and denim, I never noticed his one critical error. He and I resolved that once Flogging Molly started we would be dead center, and maybe 10-15 people from the stage. We stacked up on a really huge guy who looked like he was going to move forward, and I figured we'd let this guy do all the hard work. Sure enough, FM began their part of the show and the crowd went nuts, our guy bolted for the front, and Gene and I followed in his wake. Great show, but I just couldn't hang after a few songs and fell back. I lost my brother after the first song. It was just a heaving mass of tightly packed people sweating and breathing in each others' exhale. The place was incredibly hot. After the show I met up with my brother in the parking lot. We were both minorly intoxicated. He told me to look at his feet. Two of his toenails were black and another was missing. I bent over and said something like "Gene. Either I have never noticed how ugly your feet were, or I believe some of your piggys are broken. Sure enough he lost three nails and learned one very valuable lesson. I'm taking him to the Dropkick Murpheys/Tossers show on March 15th. There is no doubt in my mind he will be wearing sturdy shoes.

[Guest]

It was just a heaving mass of tightly packed people sweating and breathing in each others' exhale. The place was incredibly hot

AND THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE THAT FARTS> THEY THINK BECAUSE WE CANT HEAR IT--THEN WE CANT SMELL IT??