The mumbling toothless wreck that is Shane Macgowan

[Tombstoneshoes]

Before I get into my pointless ranting I want to clear up that despite the title of this thread and the fact that I'm a wet behind the mouse n00b or whatever it is this thread isn't an attack on Shane. I've been a fan of Shane and of the pogues for as long as I can remember ( I can only remember up to about five minutes ago but I'm sure I've been a fan longer than that )

Aaaaaaaanyway...

I was bored so I thought I'd look up some of my favourite albums on Amazon and see what other people thought about them, two of my favourites being Hell's ditch and Shane's first solo album the snake. I found that most of the people who reviewed these albums ( and seemed to be big Pogues fans ) seemed to all say how the albums are ruined by Shane's bad voice, that Shane shouldn't have drank so much so he'd be able to give a clearer presentation of his lyrics. This kind of shocked me as I think very differntly about the progression/decay of Shane's voice. The I cam here and was surprised to find the same kind of views.

Understand I'm not attacking any of you here and I can definetly see how you'd miss the early lively yelping Shane but this sentiment of,

'Oh yes he's a great artist but he really should stop getting drunk before gigs and he really should sort his teeth out'

I can't see how people can think that way. To me personally I found that the more Shane showed the signs of his excesses the better he sounded. I mean he may just mumble drunkenly these days but there's so much life gone into that drunken mumble, it tells a story just by itself no matter what the words are. It may be less clear than his early days but to me it's damn more soulful and beautiful.

And now on to the TEETH ( or lack thereof ). Shane's physical condition is an important part of the artist he is. He knows he doesn't look like Johnny Depp, he knows he looks like he's just crawled out of the ground but he'd rather that than play the attractiveness game like so many other bonos and whoeverthefuckelses. He's like one of the true great artists , they were all fucking scruffy ugly bastards. It's a case of martyring yourself, your comfort, your looks, your voice, for the benefit of your audience. To have the strength of your convictions and to die by the bottle as you lived by it.

Any if any of you made it through that rant you're a better thing than I. I know you all respect shane and I wasn't having a go at anyone I just felt it needed to be said as I've been confused at the talk from everywhere I've read that seemed to suggest people think Shane would be better if you could change him just a little for your own comfort, the fact that nobody can change the man is what I respect most about him.

[CraigBatty]

Well fucking said, that man/woman/thingfromVenus.

[dawsonn]

This kind of shocked me as I think very differntly about the progression/decay of Shane's voice. The I cam here and was surprised to find the same kind of views.

Understand I'm not attacking any of you here and I can definetly see how you'd miss the early lively yelping Shane but this sentiment of,

i dont think theres many people on this forum with them views. There has been a couple of posts from people slagging off shanes voice but on the whole 99% of people here are like you and love his voice i reckon!
Its just the wanker journos who dont have anything better to write.
personally i find it amusing when shane fucks up and misses lryics!

[rain dog]

he knows he looks like he's just crawled out of the ground but he'd rather that than play the attractiveness game like so many other bonos and whoeverthefuckelses.

ah, bono. one of the last, true great beauties...

[MacRua]

Well fucking said, that man/woman/thingfromVenus.

Shouldn't we buy a pint for Tombstoneshoes too?

[Eric V]

Well fucking said, that man/woman/thingfromVenus.

Shouldn't we buy a pint for Tombstoneshoes too?

I don't have any, but here's a flower for Tombstoneshoes from over in the Misc political discussion room. You get a Tiger Lilly.

[James]

I maintain he'd sing better with teeth, but the fact is it'snothing to do with me. I have no right over any celebrity or rock star's career choices and for me to start saying what Shane MacGowan should or shouldn't do is gross in the extreme.

I do know I prefer Hell's Ditch/The Snake era to more recent vocals on things like Lancaster County Prison or Holloway Boulevard. And when I first heard Chino's Place on Holloway Boulevard (the first post-pogues release I got, thinking Shane was on it all the way through) I thought it was someone imitating him. You'd be nuts to prefer Chino's Place to something like Broad Majestic Shannon, but that's more to do with the song itself than the performance.

I still love Shane's voice, but I don't think I would if I wasn't so heavily into the older stuff. I reckon I could get most people liking the Pogues if I played them Rum, Sodomy but if I played the mostly unenthusiastic whine of Crock Of Gold (which I personally think has about eight classic tracks) they'd be put off Shane MacGowan's voice.

To have the strength of your convictions and to die by the bottle as you lived by it.

I don't want him to die, and least of all by the bottle which is a horrible, lonely way to go. Shane dropped out of the Pogues (he says) because it was killing him. I don't think he wants to be a martyr, and seems happy being alive (simplistic, eh? this is the way I think all the time, with no depth or grey areas). To need a martyr for your own cause is pretty depressing and a little childlike. It's the intellectual equivalent of dropping by and posting "THE POGUES R THE TRUE WILDMEN!!!OMFG!!! ROCK N ROLL!".
But my original point remains. I believe whole heartedly in freedom of choice and if Shane wants to choose the route he's taken, it's fuck all to do with me. Like I say, he seems happy enough.

Anyhow, that's my opinion and that's your opening to start chastising me for it.

[philipchevron]

I can't contribute to this debate. At least not until I've got the attractiveness of Bono out of my head.

[Tombstoneshoes]

I agree with what you said Smerker, rereading my rant today I realised I came across a bit like, ' And another thing Shane thinks is ...' All that live by the bottle die by the bottle stuff was just me getting carried away with my pretentious writing style. What I SHOULD have said was ....

-------I'm just following the Irish tradition of songwriting, the Irish way of life, the human way of life. Cram as much pleasure into life, and rail against the pain you have to suffer as a result. Or scream and rant with the pain, and wait for it to be taken away with beautiful pleasure. --------

But then that's why he's Shane Macgowan and I'm not.( or am I ???? no )

Oh yes and I'm deeply deeply sorry everyone for mentioning Bono in a discussion about art, it was highly inappropriate and completley uncalled for I know. I promise it will never happen again.

[rain dog]

bono called and said he'd start clapping at starving african children again if we all don't start taking him seriously... i didn't dare mention the sunglasses issue...

[dawson]

Is bono your mate philip? i read somewhere that everybody on the planet is connected to everybody els via (up to) 6 people. Hence heres my connection to bono, if your his mate that is. Who knows where i could go from bono??

[philipchevron]

Is bono your mate philip? i read somewhere that everybody on the planet is connected to everybody els via (up to) 6 people. Hence heres my connection to bono, if your his mate that is. Who knows where i could go from bono??

Six Degrees of Seperation, or Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Usually, both Bono and Bob Geldof are disqualified from this game, as they've both met everybody in the world. I wouldn't say Bono was especially my mate, though we've been in each other's houses, done Lunch, got drunk together etc. But these days he prefers to do these things with Tony Blair.

[rain dog]

wasn't bono helping some american children make lemonade recently when mr. boosh and his entourage stopped by to wet their whistles?

makebonohistory

[philipchevron]

wasn't bono helping some american children make lemonade recently when mr. boosh and his entourage stopped by to wet their whistles?

makebonohistory

Bono and Boosh together have the secret Kool-Aid recipe.

[dawson]

Is bono your mate philip? i read somewhere that everybody on the planet is connected to everybody els via (up to) 6 people. Hence heres my connection to bono, if your his mate that is. Who knows where i could go from bono??

Six Degrees of Seperation, or Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Usually, both Bono and Bob Geldof are disqualified from this game, as they've both met everybody in the world. I wouldn't say Bono was especially my mate, though we've been in each other's houses, done Lunch, got drunk together etc. But these days he prefers to do these things with Tony Blair.

im still going to tell people my mate knows bono.