Who the hell is the second singer of "old" Pogues?

[RICHB]

the concept of the band was at least somewhat formed at the outset while the name came later.

Ahhh the concept!!! Im sorry your in the wrong argument. You need to come straight out out of this message take your first right and head straight into the 'How Come/Pogues Musical direction thread'

[Eckhard]

I have been mostly absent over the last couple of months. Upon my return I find somebody debating the historic facts of the band's history with members of the band, which I find pretty amusing to be honest.

[NewJerseyRich]

I thought it was a well known and established fact that the reason Spider was even there was because Shane invited him in to be the leader singer of the band as it was forming. Likewise I thought it was well known that he never actually took on the responsibility because he was sick or something for their first booked gig and Shane had to do it anyway. I believe this is documented in both biographies and elsewhere. When they arrived at the Pogues name seems irrelevant; the concept of the band was at least somewhat formed at the outset while the name came later.

That's pretty much the story as I recall. Well said KM

[RICHB]

I have been mostly absent over the last couple of months. Upon my return I find somebody debating the historic facts of the band's history with members of the band, which I find pretty amusing to be honest.

Welcome back Echard. Apparently Phil had no dealings with the Pogues until the moment he joined full time and therefore doesnt count

[dsweeney]

I have been mostly absent over the last couple of months. Upon my return I find somebody debating the historic facts of the band's history with members of the band, which I find pretty amusing to be honest.

I'm glad you're amused. But the band members concerned weren't ACTUALLY IN THE BAND AT THE TIME IN QUESTION. So their opinion is no more relevent or informed than anybody elses. And others have already expressed the exact same sentiment as you just did anyway.

[dsweeney]

I thought it was a well known and established fact that the reason Spider was even there was because Shane invited him in to be the leader singer of the band as it was forming. Likewise I thought it was well known that he never actually took on the responsibility because he was sick or something for their first booked gig and Shane had to do it anyway. I believe this is documented in both biographies and elsewhere. When they arrived at the Pogues name seems irrelevant; the concept of the band was at least somewhat formed at the outset while the name came later.

So Shane was the singer at the very first gig after all then ? That settles that so.

[kmurray105]

I thought it was a well known and established fact that the reason Spider was even there was because Shane invited him in to be the leader singer of the band as it was forming. Likewise I thought it was well known that he never actually took on the responsibility because he was sick or something for their first booked gig and Shane had to do it anyway. I believe this is documented in both biographies and elsewhere. When they arrived at the Pogues name seems irrelevant; the concept of the band was at least somewhat formed at the outset while the name came later.

So Shane was the singer at the very first gig after all then ? That settles that so.

I suppose it does. Spider was intended to be the lead singer, but Shane was the lead singer. glad we can all agree. group hug

[RICHB]

I have been mostly absent over the last couple of months. Upon my return I find somebody debating the historic facts of the band's history with members of the band, which I find pretty amusing to be honest.

I'm glad you're amused. But the band members concerned weren't ACTUALLY IN THE BAND AT THE TIME IN QUESTION. So their opinion is no more relevent or informed than anybody elses. And others have already expressed the exact same sentiment as you just did anyway.

Without wanting to 'curry' or whatever it is would it not count if he was involved in producing etc etc?

[dsweeney]

For sure it would Rich, certainly it would. But the argument was about the VERY FORMATION of the band, it's inception if you like and the original idea of what they were about. So while of COURSE Phil has first hand knowledge of a lot of Poguetry, my point is that he wasn't around for the period in question and so you can't say it's ridiculous of me arguing " with a member of the band ". As some, maybe not you, but SOME on here have done.

[dsweeney]

P.S. -The band memebers, therefore, who WOULD have the final say would include obviously Shane, Spider, Jem and I think possibly James. With Cait and Andrew joining the ranks a little later.

[RICHB]

P.S. -The band memebers, therefore, who WOULD have the final say would include obviously Shane, Spider, Jem and I think possibly James. With Cait and Andrew joining the ranks a little later.

Sorry I thought you meant in general. I take your point

[philipchevron]

I have been mostly absent over the last couple of months. Upon my return I find somebody debating the historic facts of the band's history with members of the band, which I find pretty amusing to be honest.

I'm glad you're amused. But the band members concerned weren't ACTUALLY IN THE BAND AT THE TIME IN QUESTION. So their opinion is no more relevent or informed than anybody elses. And others have already expressed the exact same sentiment as you just did anyway.

Sweeney, you're a piece of work, you know that? My friendship with Shane dates to before the beginning of Pogue Mahone. If it would help you locate your wishful thinking in a specific time and place, I first met Shane at the Vortex Club in London in September 1977. It was, in fact, the very first London gig by the Radiators from Space.

[MJ1]

'I'm stranded on the Vortex floor, my head's been kicked in and blood's started to pour'.

Was Weller up from Woking that night?

[Clash Cadillac]

I have been mostly absent over the last couple of months. Upon my return I find somebody debating the historic facts of the band's history with members of the band, which I find pretty amusing to be honest.

I'm glad you're amused. But the band members concerned weren't ACTUALLY IN THE BAND AT THE TIME IN QUESTION. So their opinion is no more relevent or informed than anybody elses. And others have already expressed the exact same sentiment as you just did anyway.

Sweeney, you're a piece of work, you know that? My friendship with Shane dates to before the beginning of Pogue Mahone. If it would help you locate your wishful thinking in a specific time and place, I first met Shane at the Vortex Club in London in September 1977. It was, in fact, the very first London gig by the Radiators from Space.

I'm afraid we are going to need photographic evidence and notarized documentation to verify this. The next thing you will be trying to tell us is that Obama was not born in Kenya.

[Kilmichael]

But the argument was about the VERY FORMATION of the band, it's inception if you like and the original idea of what they were about.

Sigh. No, it wasn't. 'The argument', as you insist on making it, wasn't about the VERY FORMATION, inception, original idea, blah blah blah. I'll say it again as you're clearly a bit slow on the uptake. What this all stems from is a throwaway comment I made 3 years ago that Spider was originally going to be the singer of the band. This opinion was based, as others have summarised more concisely than I, on various books, articles, etc. that I had read. I didn't then give, nor do I now give, a flying fuck whether that was the 'original idea' of the band or not, and quite obviously Spider never did become the lead singer. So what?

The fact that you then used this comment as some sort of vehicle to attack other people's view of the band and question whether somebody who 'only' joined the band in 1985 (as opposed to you, who was clearly a close confidante of Shane's from his birth) is qualified to talk about what happened before then is simply laughable.

But clearly that's just the way you like things to be. If people can be bothered to read back through this thread what they'll actually find is that over 3 years ago a group of people had a fairly civilised discussion about who else, apart from Shane, sang on Pogues songs. After a few weeks the discussion was concluded and everyone went away happy. Then 3 years after the last previous post, a charming indiviual decided to 'revive' it with his usual level of intellectual debate / argument / shouting / abuse. Sad...