How Come & The Pogues musical direction

[dsweeney]

Clash cadillac- You contradicted yourself by saying one thing first and then climbing down beacuse Phil is a band member. You don't even have the courage of your own convictions. Your description of The Pogues IS EXACTLY what " the original idea of the band was ", as evidenced by the extracts from countless interviews posted by Mick, I think it was, further up above.
You spuriously suggest there would be eight different answers to the question if the band were asked. How do you know this ? The same evidence from Mick would suggest otherwise.
Contrary to what people on here say, I am not one of those people who want to be " right " all the time. I'm more interested in " the truth ". It just so happens though that in this instance I AM right. And at least a few honest and true people on here agree with me. Check ANY music web-site and The Pogues will be described, in the first half of their recorded career, pretty much as you described them. To deny what they were and what they stood for is a travesty. They were a special group. A unique group. One which wll be remembered long after they're gone. But not for " Yeah yeah yeah yeah ", not for " Blue heaven ", not for " Fiesta ", or " Night train to Lorca", certainly not the abortion of " Waiting for herb ". They'll be remembered for keeping Irish traditional folk music alive and making it relevent for me and people like me. And THAT, was the original idea of the band, according to it's founder member and chief Pogue and talent, Shane MacGowan. And no amount of massaging Phil's ego wil change the fact.
BTW- Love your monicker Clash cadillac.

[dsweeney]

P.S.- Re most rock musicians being arseholes, I take it you've all seen " Spinal tap " ? Well, I would suggest, and a lot of stars have admitted this themselves, that it is closer to reality than you might think. I didn't say ALL rock musicians, I was making a generalisation. One of the charcters says something about winding up in a zoo because they won't have a stage to perform on. Pretty much sums it up really. Footballers are even worse. Mumbling, stutering, incoherent retarded mother fuckers one and all. And that includes my beloved Manchester United. Ferdinand ? Roo ? Jesus.Who care though, right ? Yeah!

[Clash Cadillac]

You spuriously suggest there would be eight different answers to the question if the band were asked. How do you know this ?

Well that is the point. I don't know and would never presume that I know since I am not one of the band members nor was I close to any of the band members during that time period. It will be interesting to see if James touches this subject in his forthcoming book.

[soulfinger]

...most rock musicians are complete arseholes actually. Like most footballers.

Fuck me, you must get around a lot to have met most rock musicians and most footballers!

Personally, I've only met 7 rock musicians and 1 footballer, and I have to say they were all absolute gents. As always, however, I will bow to your superior knowledge in such matters. After all, as your posts admirably prove, you don't have to actually meet someone to realise they are a complete arsehole...

Deadly.

[darrencp22]

I think this topic ceased to be informative a long time ago.

[old barney greyheron]

And anyway, so what if footballers are a bit thick? You don't hear scientists being criticised for being rubbish at football.

[firehazard]

And anyway, so what if footballers are a bit thick? You don't hear scientists being criticised for being rubbish at football.

Except by other scientists. The all-scientist pi-a-side league is dead competitive.

[dsweeney]

And anyway, so what if footballers are a bit thick? You don't hear scientists being criticised for being rubbish at football.

Wow, that's sooo original Barney, well done. I simply mentioned in passing that, like footballers, rock musicians aren't the font of all knowledge some on here seem to think they are. As somebody else pointed out, they, like me, have fuckin' EARS OF THEIR OWN and KNOW what they're listening to. No matter how many times Phil tries to re-write history.
Soulfinger- While I merely have a different opinion to others on here, which I am entitiled to by the way, you, on the other hand are an utter arsehole, who will stoop to any level simply to insult people just because they disagree with your beloved Phil. Get a mind of your own or else you know where you can stick your soulfinger. Myabe you already do.

I hadn't heard James has a book coming out ? Brilliant, I'll definitely be getting that. And while I won't presume to know what's in it, I doubt there were jazz forays and Spanish interludes left off "Red roses for me" in favour of " Streams of whiskey " and " Waxie's dargle ". And even if there WERE, they weren't on the fucking album which is what I and a few others are saying.

[dsweeney]

P.S. -A question for Phil and all his sycophants and teachers pets like soulfinger on here;

If The Pogues played all sorts of musical forms in their early days how do you explain the legendary " coal to Newcastle " comment ? I.E. That playing IRISH MUSIC to the Irish is like selling......Answer me that without resorting to insults, or admit to being blinded by your devotion to Phil and ignoring what is plainly the fucking truth.

[dsweeney]

P.P.S.- I also remember a line from Jem in relation to " Metropolis ". He says something about how he didn't think he'd get the jazz past the band so had to put the Irish elements in to it. Further confirmation, if it were needed, of what the band were originally about. From a founder member no less and after Shane, the principal songwriter in the band.

[RICHB]

P.S. -A question for Phil and all his sycophants and teachers pets like soulfinger on here;

If The Pogues played all sorts of musical forms in their early days how do you explain the legendary " coal to Newcastle " comment ? I.E. That playing IRISH MUSIC to the Irish is like selling......Answer me that without resorting to insults, or admit to being blinded by your devotion to Phil and ignoring what is plainly the fucking truth.

I think, to be fair, your looking at this as if its black or white. As if its irish folk or no irish folk. Thats not the point. There were always other influences within all the pogues music. Of course the main part of the music was irish music and all of the above but that doesnt mean its "folk with a punk attitude". Its more complex than that. The other influences come more apparent as time goes on but its there from the off. All this Phils teachers pet stuff says more about your attitue than anyone elses. The coals to Newcastle comment was a question asked of the Pogues and in the same interview im sure its mentioned about the fact that band are not irish and although it might not be said a comment to settle the argument either way, certainly Spiders comments seem to support the point of view that you shouldnt just believe were an irish folk band (although I would have to play it again to be sure)

[lavabe]

... They were a special group. A unique group. One which wll be remembered long after they're gone. But not for " Yeah yeah yeah yeah ", not for " Blue heaven ", not for " Fiesta ", or " Night train to Lorca", certainly not the abortion of " Waiting for herb ". They'll be remembered for keeping Irish traditional folk music alive and making it relevent for me and people like me. And THAT, was the original idea of the band, according to it's founder member and chief Pogue and talent, Shane MacGowan....

and for me this is the point and THE truth...too. i also think this is what will be in mind of next generations when they hear or read about the pogues...

[Doktor Avalanche]

Dead

Horse

Flogged

[Pogues to Niagara]

Ha ha!
You read my mind, I almost posted the exact same comment earlier.
I still keep coming back to look, it's like a train wreck!

[soulfinger]

Soulfinger- While I merely have a different opinion to others on here, which I am entitiled to by the way, you, on the other hand are an utter arsehole, who will stoop to any level simply to insult people just because they disagree with your beloved Phil. Get a mind of your own or else you know where you can stick your soulfinger. Myabe you already do.

I think you're confusing insulting people with taking the piss. I haven't disagreed with you on your original contention. I'm not bothered whether it's 95% Irish trad / 5% Venezuelan beaver cheese. You're perfectly entitled to have your view on it. I think the way you just yell at people who don't acknowledge how right you are is very funny. Good effort with "stick your soulfinger" line oh master of wit and repartee.

Interesting point though on which Pogues songs will endure. Depends on whether you mean with fans of The Pogues or everyone else. I'd have thought FONY and Fiesta stood a chance with the latter.