The Medusa Fora

While none of these albums are anywhere near the sheer brilliance of The Pogues first three albums or even the fourth and fifth, I think overall, that these two albums deserve some merit. I've been listening to Waiting For Herb, lately and it has begun to grow on me. Some of the songs are actually really good, such as Tuesday Morning, Small Hours, Haunting, Drunken Boat, and Modern World to name a few. By the time they released Pogue Mahone, Terry Woods, Philip Chevron, and James Fearnley had left, but they brought in the ever reliable James McNally, and produced an album that I actually prefer to it predcessor. Spider Stacy seems more confident with his vocals and the songs seem more focused, especially When the Ship Comes In, Anniversary, Tosspint, Love You Till the End, and The Sun and the Moon. As with some Pogues fans, I was among the bores that cold shouldered these two albums upon their maiden voyage, refusing to accept a Shaneless Pogues, but after many listens each album has started to grow on me.

pogues22 wrote:While none of these albums are anywhere near the sheer brilliance of The Pogues first three albums or even the fourth and fifth, I think overall, that these two albums deserve some merit. I've been listening to Waiting For Herb, lately and it has begun to grow on me. Some of the songs are actually really good, such as Tuesday Morning, Small Hours, Haunting, Drunken Boat, and Modern World to name a few. By the time they released Pogue Mahone, Terry Woods, Philip Chevron, and James Fearnley had left, but they brought in the ever reliable James McNally, and produced an album that I actually prefer to it predcessor. Spider Stacy seems more confident with his vocals and the songs seem more focused, especially When the Ship Comes In, Anniversary, Tosspint, Love You Till the End, and The Sun and the Moon. As with some Pogues fans, I was among the bores that cold shouldered these two albums upon their maiden voyage, refusing to accept a Shaneless Pogues, but after many listens each album has started to grow on me.

I agree pogues22. I think Pogue Mahone is a great album and Waiting For Herb a good one. The only fault with them comes when you try comparing them to IISFFGWG, Rum etc. Shane and his classic songs may have departed but Jem had really matured as a songwriter by the last few albums and wrote some great tracks. Also, other members like Spider and Andrew started to write class tracks as well. The only thing I don't like about those last 2 albums is that there isn't enough of an Irish element to the songs. I'm all for experimentation, a la IISFFGWG, but when the original sound has virtually disappeared it is not as good. If only tracks like Hot Asphalt and the alternate mix of Tosspint (which had some great work on the bodhran from James McNally) had been considered worthy of inclusion on those later CDs, they may not have lost so many fans. The last time I saw The Pogues live before they split- I think it was in 1995- it was sad to see them play a smaller venue, and it wasn't even full. An undignified end to a great band...until the reunion came along.

I agree with you as well, I thought Pogue Mahone was a partial return to form, where as Waiting For Herb contained more fusion type songs. Not bad, but then again its not kick ass Irish music either. However, as with you, I'm all for experimentation as well, especially when it worked for The Pogues on If I Should Fall From Grace With God and even Peace and Love, but I think the new progression started to confuse die hard fans. I agree with Spider, when he said "We couldn't have kept churning out another Red Roses For Me every six months; all bands change." I think he is right, that is why I don't mind Peace and Love and Hell's Ditch, because they are something different, well Peace and Love was closer to the Pogues original sound, but Hell's Ditch and Waiting For Herb were both totally different musical styles than the band's pervious works, but I still believed that they worked out fine.

For me it's the other way round...
I still can remember the restless time when Shane departed and no one knew how everything will go on.
Furthermore, Shane was immediatly replaced by Joe Strummer.
Don't get me wrong: I totally respect Joe but the exchange of the lead singers was too sudden and people weren't ready to accept someone outside the Pogues, even if Joe was a close friend of the band.
All these things seemed to be the beginning of the end so I was VERY surprised that they released another album with Spider taking over the lead vocals. For me this album has a bit of a Phoenix-Character...
As already mentioned, you can't compare it with the earlier works but there is no crap song on it (well...except Tuesday Morning perhaps). All songs bear a very thick atmosphere (esp. Haunted) and I liked it very much.
In my opinion Waiting for Herb was even better than Hells Ditch.
But for me it was certainly better than Pogue Mahone.
There're still some great songs on it (think I like Amadie best...)but you felt the last gasps somehow, hence the departure of the other members.
I really wonder what would come out if they would do a new album...

I agree, by the time the Pogues recorded Pogue Mahone they were really on their last legs, however, I don't think Waiting For Herb was anywhere near as good as Hell's Ditch. Hell's Ditch was more worldy, but it did contain some fantastic songs, where as Waiting For Herb, while overall it a good album, contained some filler.

I much prefer Waiting for Herb. I've loved Haunting, Drunken Boat, Tuesday Morning and Pachinko (I've really never understood why some folk hate this track so much) right from the start and the rest of the album grew on me over time. I've particularly enjoyed listening to the bonus tracks on the re-mastered version. I like first day of forever a lot.

I prefer Waiting for herb by a mile, by the time that Pogue Mahone came along they'd lost some of the characters that made the band.

I like Pogue Mahone a lot. Maybe listened to Herb three times or so while Pogue Mahone is in my playlists every two weeks or so

I've always said that it doesn't matter to me what direction a band takes, it's their life, their work, their right to choose. It's not like they owe it to their fans to churn out records that are "trve" (*coughMotorheadcough*). I'm only there for as long as our paths cross. Still, I got so terribly disappointed when I first heard Pogue Mahone that I've only bothered to check it once more after that. Still felt the same. It's literally speaking the most dusty CD I own.

I know, if it wasn't by the Pogues I would probably just have thought "quite okay" and listened to it now and then, but still. It says "Pogues" and I'm going to continue being childish about it, I guess.

soulfinger wrote:I much prefer Waiting for Herb. I've loved Haunting, Drunken Boat, Tuesday Morning and Pachinko (I've really never understood why some folk hate this track so much) right from the start and the rest of the album grew on me over time. I've particularly enjoyed listening to the bonus tracks on the re-mastered version. I like first day of forever a lot.

Yeah i prefer Waiting for Herb too. I really think it has some good songs like you said soulfinger. Songs like Tuesday Morning, Drunken Boat and Big City are a few of my favourites.

a) I consider Mahone to be one of their best (along with IFI, P. and L. and Hell´s ditch). Furthermore it is great that something so good was created in such a state of the band (I don´t see into it but it seems to me that everything wasn´t fine).

Don't listen to much of eithier one to be honest, to me they're only The Pogues in name without Shane, so I'd say Waiting For Herb because it's the classic line-up apart of Shane.

Tuesday morning is the only great post-shane song

Tuesday Morning is a great song but so is drunken boat, my baby's gone...I would love to have heard more from Spider, james and Andrew as song writers. For what it's worth, i thought spider was areally class lead singer by the time i saw them at Leeds heineken festival. They were all brilliant and really, really powerful. A big change from when i had seen them last with a stroppy looking shane at the mike... I don't know why every one was so down on them. to be honest that was one of the best gigs i ever saw.

guest wrote:Tuesday Morning is a great song but so is drunken boat, my baby's gone...I would love to have heard more from Spider, james and Andrew as song writers. For what it's worth, i thought spider was areally class lead singer by the time i saw them at Leeds heineken festival. They were all brilliant and really, really powerful. A big change from when i had seen them last with a stroppy looking shane at the mike... I don't know why every one was so down on them. to be honest that was one of the best gigs i ever saw.

I agree about wanting to hear more from Spider and Andrew as writers. I also think that Jem had developed into a truly great songwriter by the last couple of albums. If he had been in any other band (and not stuck with living in Shane's shadow) he would be a lot better known as a great songwriter.