NEW PARIS DVD/CD

[Kilmichael]

Santa (i.e. my gorgeous wife) got me the CD as well, loving it, great performance and recording.

Been listening to a lot of the official live Pogues releases recently and one of the things that has struck me is the little differences within each performance of certain songs. This seems to be most obvious on tracks like DOT and Brown Eyes, where what's played on the mandolin and banjo particularly seems to vary between different versions. Does anybody know if this just down to the recording/acoustics/mastering or have certain band members changed or amended their parts over the years on certain songs?

Well, that depends. Arrangements evolve over time in the natural order of things. However, "Dirty Old Town" may be a special case as, in 2001, we abandoned the 1985 arrangement we had worked on with Elvis Costello for Rum, Sodomy. Elvis felt that because Ewan MacColl's ballad does not shift anywhere else once the main theme has been stated [that is, there is no chorus or middle eight or other harmonic shift] but just repeats to the finish, that a potential single version needed more colour and variation, so he helped us put some key changes in it. Notably, these are right after the guitar/harmonica introductory verse and coming into the uileann pipes/fiddle/mandolin instrumental section later. Almost certainly, EC's commercial judgement was sound on this but, when it came to do the song again for the 2001 reunion, Shane asked us to restore it to how it had been before that, which is basically how the Dubliners had played it before us. Interestingly, this released a whole new energy into the song, a kind of old-timey string band vibe which we all liked very much. This is substantially the version we've stuck with ever since, although of course this in itself varies depending on whether or not the horns are with us - the trombone, sax and trumpet add their own cadences which affect the overall sound.

But in general, as individuals, it's fair to say we're always making small changes in our work all the time. It keeps things interesting.

Thanks for the info Philip. If you listen to DOT from the Mean Fiddler in Jan 86 and Barrowlands in Dec 87 and compare them to Brixton Dec 2001 and Paris you can definitely hear the differences. There is also what sounds like Terry using a slide on the mandolin (could be banjo tho, my knowledge and ears aren't that great!) on Brown Eyes from Paris that I think is new and that I really like.

I also love Shane's little echo of 'and we danced to the music, and we danced' at the end of 1000s - funnily enough I've always added that in my head when singing along to it! I guess (as the Paris booklet says) that's one of the great things about the Pogues - no matter how many times you see them, each gig is genuinely different.

[Low D]

Thanks for the info Philip. If you listen to DOT from the Mean Fiddler in Jan 86 and Barrowlands in Dec 87 and compare them to Brixton Dec 2001 and Paris you can definitely hear the differences. There is also what sounds like Terry using a slide on the mandolin (could be banjo tho, my knowledge and ears aren't that great!) on Brown Eyes from Paris that I think is new and that I really like.

Fair to say that i was quite obsessed with Terry's playing on the 2001 live cd, and the different textures it added to songs, and am thus thrilled to have another live document to hear, where I note he's playing quite differently yet again.

[Sober]

Well, that depends. Arrangements evolve over time in the natural order of things. However, "Dirty Old Town" may be a special case as, in 2001, we abandoned the 1985 arrangement we had worked on with Elvis Costello for Rum, Sodomy. Elvis felt that because Ewan MacColl's ballad does not shift anywhere else once the main theme has been stated [that is, there is no chorus or middle eight or other harmonic shift] but just repeats to the finish, that a potential single version needed more colour and variation, so he helped us put some key changes in it. Notably, these are right after the guitar/harmonica introductory verse and coming into the uileann pipes/fiddle/mandolin instrumental section later. Almost certainly, EC's commercial judgement was sound on this but, when it came to do the song again for the 2001 reunion, Shane asked us to restore it to how it had been before that, which is basically how the Dubliners had played it before us. Interestingly, this released a whole new energy into the song, a kind of old-timey string band vibe which we all liked very much. This is substantially the version we've stuck with ever since, although of course this in itself varies depending on whether or not the horns are with us - the trombone, sax and trumpet add their own cadences which affect the overall sound.

But in general, as individuals, it's fair to say we're always making small changes in our work all the time. It keeps things interesting.

Interesting. I learned to play Dirty Old Town using the music sheet that has been written based on the Rum, Sodomy and the Lash version. There are three key changes in it (D, G and C). So what do you mean by "how it had been before that"? You mean that there is only one key for the whole song? What is it? I just got the CD so I did not have the time to study it.

[philipchevron]

Well, that depends. Arrangements evolve over time in the natural order of things. However, "Dirty Old Town" may be a special case as, in 2001, we abandoned the 1985 arrangement we had worked on with Elvis Costello for Rum, Sodomy. Elvis felt that because Ewan MacColl's ballad does not shift anywhere else once the main theme has been stated [that is, there is no chorus or middle eight or other harmonic shift] but just repeats to the finish, that a potential single version needed more colour and variation, so he helped us put some key changes in it. Notably, these are right after the guitar/harmonica introductory verse and coming into the uileann pipes/fiddle/mandolin instrumental section later. Almost certainly, EC's commercial judgement was sound on this but, when it came to do the song again for the 2001 reunion, Shane asked us to restore it to how it had been before that, which is basically how the Dubliners had played it before us. Interestingly, this released a whole new energy into the song, a kind of old-timey string band vibe which we all liked very much. This is substantially the version we've stuck with ever since, although of course this in itself varies depending on whether or not the horns are with us - the trombone, sax and trumpet add their own cadences which affect the overall sound.

But in general, as individuals, it's fair to say we're always making small changes in our work all the time. It keeps things interesting.

Interesting. I learned to play Dirty Old Town using the music sheet that has been written based on the Rum, Sodomy and the Lash version. There are three key changes in it (D, G and C). So what do you mean by "how it had been before that"? You mean that there is only one key for the whole song? What is it? I just got the CD so I did not have the time to study it.

The version we currently play is in G throughout.

[RICHB]

Well, that depends. Arrangements evolve over time in the natural order of things. However, "Dirty Old Town" may be a special case as, in 2001, we abandoned the 1985 arrangement we had worked on with Elvis Costello for Rum, Sodomy. Elvis felt that because Ewan MacColl's ballad does not shift anywhere else once the main theme has been stated [that is, there is no chorus or middle eight or other harmonic shift] but just repeats to the finish, that a potential single version needed more colour and variation, so he helped us put some key changes in it. Notably, these are right after the guitar/harmonica introductory verse and coming into the uileann pipes/fiddle/mandolin instrumental section later. Almost certainly, EC's commercial judgement was sound on this but, when it came to do the song again for the 2001 reunion, Shane asked us to restore it to how it had been before that, which is basically how the Dubliners had played it before us. Interestingly, this released a whole new energy into the song, a kind of old-timey string band vibe which we all liked very much. This is substantially the version we've stuck with ever since, although of course this in itself varies depending on whether or not the horns are with us - the trombone, sax and trumpet add their own cadences which affect the overall sound.

But in general, as individuals, it's fair to say we're always making small changes in our work all the time. It keeps things interesting.

Interesting. I learned to play Dirty Old Town using the music sheet that has been written based on the Rum, Sodomy and the Lash version. There are three key changes in it (D, G and C). So what do you mean by "how it had been before that"? You mean that there is only one key for the whole song? What is it? I just got the CD so I did not have the time to study it.

The version we currently play is in G throughout.

Talking of 'G' is that Shane at the start of 'Repeal' shouting "its GGGGGG" ha ha

[JakubT]

Just wanted to drop by and say how much I enjoyed this DVD I got for Christmas. How come that Shane is "suddenly" (compared to earlier 00s) so good? Is it the new teeth?

At any rate, thanks so much to the band for such a great music. I did not expect that such a good stuff would emerge these days.

[Charles]

Since "stupid reviews" are usually posted in the concerts section, I wanted to see if this was in allmusic.com yet. Sure enough......

The review is positive.....but.....the reviewer was surprised they started the concert on time with your "unholy reputation", the Pogues are more piss than vinegar, and Shane sings Star of The County Down .

http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-pogue ... 0002440550

Since officially calling it quits in 1996, the Pogues have periodically resurfaced for the occasional tour, but with zero chatter about ever entering the recording studio again. Recorded in 2012 at the legendary Olympia theater in France, The Pogues in Paris may be as close as fans will ever get to hearing anything new from the group (as in current renditions of old favorites), and it's surprisingly sound, considering the group's unholy reputation. What's even more remarkable than arriving on time to their 30th anniversary show is the fact that they did it with Shane MacGowan in tow, who sounds fiery, feisty, and half sober, especially on the venerable folk-punk rockers' older material like "Streams of Whiskey," "Star of the County Down," "Sally MacLennane," and "Boys from the County Hell," spitting out each lyric with cocksure tenacity, despite his obvious lack of teeth. Featuring the classic, full band lineup of MacGowan, Spider Stacy, Jem Finer, James Fearnley, Andrew Ranken, Phillip Chevron, Terry Woods, and Darryl Hunt, along with a brass section and Finer's daughter Ella, who elegantly assumes the late Kirsty MacColl's role in "Fairytale of New York," the 21st century Pogues sound a lot like the 20th century version, albeit a little heavier on the piss than the vinegar. They sound genuinely happy to be playing together and you can tell by the rowdy crowd's near constant singing along that the feeling is mutual.

This concert is alot better than 3 of 5 stars.

[old barney greyheron]

That's not a bad review, apart from the error concerning 'star'...anyroad it's reminded me..my sister's coming round in the week..she's got my copy..must tell her to fetch it back..before she starts thinking it belongs to her!

[Lade]

There is a review in this months Record Collector. 4 stars out of 5.

[JohnG]

My copy arrived from Amazon UK within a week of ordering it. I watched it all the way through last night and must say I thought it absolutely wonderful (almost as good as seeing the band live in London a few weeks ago...and on countless other occasions)!

One teensie, weensie point....I'd have loved the strains from Straight to Hell to have accompanied the band as they emerged...I find that always ratchets up the excitement at all the live gig I've been to...and presumably was played at Paris too.

The DVD appears in cinema-wide format on my TV so the picture doesn't take up the whole screen. I tried making adjustments from the TV remote control but that only seems to work for TV programmes, not DVDs.

[Hennybhoy]

One teensie, weensie point....I'd have loved the strains from Straight to Hell to have accompanied the band as they emerged...I find that always ratchets up the excitement at all the live gig I've been to...and presumably was played at Paris too.

You're right!

[philipchevron]

One teensie, weensie point....I'd have loved the strains from Straight to Hell to have accompanied the band as they emerged...I find that always ratchets up the excitement at all the live gig I've been to...and presumably was played at Paris too.

You're right!

On one of the two nights, the Clash intro CD ground to a premature halt about half a minute in, the only time it's ever happened (so far), which meant we had to just walk on without it, just as we appear to be doing in the film. For reasons of continuity, we were unable to edit between the two versions at that point. But anyway, I have a feeling we may have had to drop it from the DVD anyway - record companies (Sony, in the case of the Clash) charge punitive fees for the use of such material on film.

[RICHB]

One teensie, weensie point....I'd have loved the strains from Straight to Hell to have accompanied the band as they emerged...I find that always ratchets up the excitement at all the live gig I've been to...and presumably was played at Paris too.

You're right!

On one of the two nights, the Clash intro CD ground to a premature halt about half a minute in, the only time it's ever happened (so far), which meant we had to just walk on without it, just as we appear to be doing in the film. For reasons of continuity, we were unable to edit between the two versions at that point. But anyway, I have a feeling we may have had to drop it from the DVD anyway - record companies (Sony, in the case of the Clash) charge punitive fees for the use of such material on film.

Could that possibly why it ground to a premature halt ha ha

[in_the_morning]

Thanks for the info Philip. If you listen to DOT from the Mean Fiddler in Jan 86 and Barrowlands in Dec 87 and compare them to Brixton Dec 2001 and Paris you can definitely hear the differences. There is also what sounds like Terry using a slide on the mandolin (could be banjo tho, my knowledge and ears aren't that great!) on Brown Eyes from Paris that I think is new and that I really like.

Fair to say that i was quite obsessed with Terry's playing on the 2001 live cd, and the different textures it added to songs, and am thus thrilled to have another live document to hear, where I note he's playing quite differently yet again.

As much as I love the new DVD, I prefer Terry's playing on the 2001 live cd on certain songs, for instance on "Streams" - he brilliantly plays around with the melody during the choruses and he always varies his little melodies...sounds so heavenly...he also did that on many shows in the late 80's from what you can hear on bootlegs (for instance on "Streams" on the 1989 "Sink that Bottle"-recording)...that's not to say that his playing on "Streams" at Paris isn't wonderful, but it seems to be a bit more "straight-forward" if you like, for example during the last chorus where he goes down a very direct scale from the high "d" note when Shane sings "Any which way the wind...".

The change in "DOT" is very evident, BUT: there is a version from 2009 with Sharon Shannon where they play the intro in the key of "D" like the Pogues used to in the 80's...and the instrumental break seems to be in "C" as well, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTR0llxapEk

Talking of 'G' is that Shane at the start of 'Repeal' shouting "its GGGGGG" ha ha

actually that seems to be Spidey's voice...

[Low D]

I notice Terry limits himself to bouzouki and (godin) mandolin, i don't think he used a cittern at all (I may be wrong here, I've only watched once so far!), which might be part of the difference. Phillip, was Terry altering his insturmentation (never noticed him play a godin before) because you were recording?

On that note, generally do you folks approach arrangements or instrument choices differently when planning to record?