The Medusa Fora

in_the_morning wrote:

philipchevron wrote:Yes, you're correct on both counts, now that I think about it. So Christy's bowrawn, if heard at all, would only have been picked up on the vocal mikes. The Late Late Show insisted on having live vocals always. Caused us a problem with "Sick Bed of Cuchulainn" in 1985, as there's no real timing cues for the vocal in the slow bits. The Radiators were unaware of the "live vocal" rule when we did "The Dancing Years", our then current single, on the show in 1980 and had not brought a backing-track-only tape. They made me sing live on top of my quite audible recorded vocal. Bizarre.

Ah, that explains why Sickbed fades out just like the studio version At least Shane sings live, he comes in a bit late at one time during the song. What I always find a bit confusing is the fact that you can't hear the unplugged instruments. I mean, you are playing them, probably not the original song but you somehow push accordion buttons or strumm your guitar, but why can't you hear any of that? Is the playbacked instrumental track that loud? I find miming quite stupid because it's usually very easy to find out when a band does so...a great thing was on a Frensh Show where the whole band including Shane mimed to Sally MacLenanne in a pub...well Shane obviously didn't even try to make it look "real" and just didn't give a fuck, but Mr. Chevron was jumping around with his usual energy and vitality, which was really funny and gave the overall very boring-looking band a certain excitement.

The playback of the track is never loud but certainly loud enough to obscure any instrument spillage. Without microphones etc, it's not easy to hear any sound source and very little is picked up on the live vocal mikes, which tend to be unidirectional, that is to say they are designed to pick up only the direct vocal sound. A possible exception is the drumkit, which is why drummers usually use a rubber damping pad on the snare drum and plastic cymbals, which always look real on camera.

philipchevron wrote:

in_the_morning wrote:

philipchevron wrote:Yes, you're correct on both counts, now that I think about it. So Christy's bowrawn, if heard at all, would only have been picked up on the vocal mikes. The Late Late Show insisted on having live vocals always. Caused us a problem with "Sick Bed of Cuchulainn" in 1985, as there's no real timing cues for the vocal in the slow bits. The Radiators were unaware of the "live vocal" rule when we did "The Dancing Years", our then current single, on the show in 1980 and had not brought a backing-track-only tape. They made me sing live on top of my quite audible recorded vocal. Bizarre.

Ah, that explains why Sickbed fades out just like the studio version At least Shane sings live, he comes in a bit late at one time during the song. What I always find a bit confusing is the fact that you can't hear the unplugged instruments. I mean, you are playing them, probably not the original song but you somehow push accordion buttons or strumm your guitar, but why can't you hear any of that? Is the playbacked instrumental track that loud? I find miming quite stupid because it's usually very easy to find out when a band does so...a great thing was on a Frensh Show where the whole band including Shane mimed to Sally MacLenanne in a pub...well Shane obviously didn't even try to make it look "real" and just didn't give a fuck, but Mr. Chevron was jumping around with his usual energy and vitality, which was really funny and gave the overall very boring-looking band a certain excitement.

The playback of the track is never loud but certainly loud enough to obscure any instrument spillage. Without microphones etc, it's not easy to hear any sound source and very little is picked up on the live vocal mikes, which tend to be unidirectional, that is to say they are designed to pick up only the direct vocal sound. A possible exception is the drumkit, which is why drummers usually use a rubber damping pad on the snare drum and plastic cymbals, which always look real on camera.

Thanks a lot for the information! Hope to see you in London this December, great news that there will be a tour

philipchevron wrote:

RoddyRuddy wrote:

We performed "Mountain Dew" on at least two TV shows - Sunday Night At The Gaiety and The Tom O'Connor Show. Only "Jack's Heroes" had a formal video promo. There was none for "The Irish Rover" though the version from The Late Late Show Tribute To The Dubliners was widely circulated with RTE's permission.

That's a great clip. I love the visual contrast between Shane and Ronnie.

http://www.buy4now.ie/rte/aspx/productd ... &catid=7.4

Just saw the Dubliners Tribute show for sale on DVD at RTE on line shop.Has this just be re issued or has it been out for a while on DVD.Was aware of a VHS tape but not a DVD.

I think the DVD has been available for a year or two now. Incidentally, a commercially released CD of the show also exists, but what I don't know is whether it's off the DVD soundtrack or whether they just use studio versions. Obviously, in the case of the le tout ensemble "Auld Triangle", they will have had to use the live take, but in the case of, say "The Irish Rover", nothing is to be gained as we were all just miming to the record anyway. Which explains why you can't hear Christy Moore's bowrawn (new spelling courtesy of Christy Moore).

Got the DVD in todays post ,claims to be an extended edition.Not sure what is extra from the VHS , liner notes give no clues ,but will give it a good watch .

RoddyRuddy wrote:

Got the DVD in todays post ,claims to be an extended edition.Not sure what is extra from the VHS , liner notes give no clues ,but will give it a good watch .

Possibly the extended - and uninvited, CJ was the Black Fairy - dumbshow of Charlie Haughey attempting to associate himself with greatness has made it to the DVD?

philipchevron wrote:

RoddyRuddy wrote:

Got the DVD in todays post ,claims to be an extended edition.Not sure what is extra from the VHS , liner notes give no clues ,but will give it a good watch .

Possibly the extended - and uninvited, CJ was the Black Fairy - dumbshow of Charlie Haughey attempting to associate himself with greatness has made it to the DVD?

He is seen looking for a seat at one point.

RoddyRuddy wrote:

philipchevron wrote:

RoddyRuddy wrote:

Got the DVD in todays post ,claims to be an extended edition.Not sure what is extra from the VHS , liner notes give no clues ,but will give it a good watch .

Possibly the extended - and uninvited, CJ was the Black Fairy - dumbshow of Charlie Haughey attempting to associate himself with greatness has made it to the DVD?

He is seen looking for a seat at one point.

Ah yes, as Safe a seat as possible, no doubt.

I really liked the end bit where the late Ciaran Bourke introduced The Auld Triangle track with Lament For Brendan Behan .Would this be Ciarans last live proformance?

RoddyRuddy wrote:I really liked the end bit where the late Ciaran Bourke introduced The Auld Triangle track with Lament For Brendan Behan .Would this be Ciarans last live proformance?

I believe so, yes.

Somebody further back asked the question as to why " Whiskey..." sounds more polished than the Rover. I have to disagree, to me it is not nearly as well produced. And, for me, I think " Whiskey.." is actually played TOO fast, if anything. I know the Pogues play at a fair wallop but sometimes it doesn't work. Also, at the risk of heresy, I think "The Irish rover" is probably a better song actually. Along with " Mountain dew ", they are essential additions to the remastered " Grace..". As are ALL the bonus tracks. " South Australia ", Terry's " Battle march.." and Shane's sublime " Shanne Bradley " are as good as anything on the album.

dsweeney wrote:Somebody further back asked the question as to why " Whiskey..." sounds more polished than the Rover. I have to disagree, to me it is not nearly as well produced. And, for me, I think " Whiskey.." is actually played TOO fast, if anything. I know the Pogues play at a fair wallop but sometimes it doesn't work. Also, at the risk of heresy, I think "The Irish rover" is probably a better song actually. Along with " Mountain dew ", they are essential additions to the remastered " Grace..". As are ALL the bonus tracks. " South Australia ", Terry's " Battle march.." and Shane's sublime " Shanne Bradley " are as good as anything on the album.

Yes, that was me. I agree with you, it wasn't as well produced because (to my ear anyway) it's too clinical. 'Rover' seems much more......organic?

" The rover " definitely has a more immediate, " live " feel to it. Like they set up the mics and in one take they got it. I have a feeling though this wasn't the case as I seem to remember Phil saying there are various takes and versions of the song in existence. " Whiskey..." is a good 3 years later and after " Peace and love " so the production by then was more polished and less organic as you say, less natural and authentic. I stil think it's raw enough though, certainly doesn't spoil it for me.
For me Lillywhite got it all wrong. He was a rock producer, Big country and u2, both great bands but as far from the natural sounds of the Pogues as you can get. For me, you can't fuck with acoustic instruments, can't meddle with studio effects etc. They are what they are and should sound the way they naturally sound. Folk and traditional music should sound like it's being played right there in the room with you, or in your local pub. Big rock guitar sounds are fine for the arena, not for an acoustic folk band.

50th anniversary show
"THE DUBLINERS, the Dubs and one particular Dub the critics love to hate, Mrs Brown, feature heavily in RTÉ’s Christmas schedule, which has just been announced.
.............
..RTÉ’s 25th anniversary Late Late Show special on The Dubliners, in 1987, was one of the more famous episodes of the programme and spawned a best-selling video. Twenty-five years on, RTÉ is marking the 50th anniversary of the band’s formation with a special hosted by former presenter Gay Byrne......" quote/ read in full http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 80390.html

Hope the guests are as good as last time.

"..On the eve of The Dubliners 50th anniversary Gay Byrne will present For One Night Only, with guest performances from some of the cream of the Irish music scene including Declan O'Rourke, Sharon Shannon, Shane MacGowan, Mary Couglan and Liam Ó'Maonlai....." quote http://www.rte.ie/ten/2011/1128/rtechristmas.html

dsweeney wrote:"
For me Lillywhite got it all wrong. He was a rock producer, Big country and u2, both great bands but as far from the natural sounds of the Pogues as you can get. For me, you can't fuck with acoustic instruments, can't meddle with studio effects etc. They are what they are and should sound the way they naturally sound. Folk and traditional music should sound like it's being played right there in the room with you, or in your local pub. Big rock guitar sounds are fine for the arena, not for an acoustic folk band.

Part of me agrees with you, part of me says check this out, from a classic Canadian folk singer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM6ufsyYPTM
I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have happened with some reverb. Likewise the "Hendrix violin" played by on this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXWXe-0Wsow
(starts at about 2:50).

Dsweeney: Hmmm, where do you hear overproduction of instruments in Lillywhite's mixes? When listening especially to the remastered versions of CDs, I feel that I hear most instruments played live next to me when listening to it stereo...

Actually, I was thinking of any rock/punk/whatever not classical music CD which would reach the sound brilliance of IISFFGWG/Peace and Love/Hell's Ditch - and I couldn't come up with any. That is not to say they don't sound great - but mostly, even lesser bands (e.g., the Levellers) sound more muffled and mixed up. In case of the above mentioned CDs, the music is (at least in my opinion), coherent and "together", but single instuments ale clearly distinguishable from one another - which is a mighty powerful achievement with 8-man band...

Pyro - Jakub wrote:Dsweeney: Hmmm, where do you hear overproduction of instruments in Lillywhite's mixes? When listening especially to the remastered versions of CDs, I feel that I hear most instruments played live next to me when listening to it stereo...

Actually, I was thinking of any rock/punk/whatever not classical music CD which would reach the sound brilliance of IISFFGWG/Peace and Love/Hell's Ditch - and I couldn't come up with any. That is not to say they don't sound great - but mostly, even lesser bands (e.g., the Levellers) sound more muffled and mixed up. In case of the above mentioned CDs, the music is (at least in my opinion), coherent and "together", but single instuments ale clearly distinguishable from one another - which is a mighty powerful achievement with 8-man band...

Hush child, let's not make the mistake of waking the dead-to-us.