The Medusa Fora

Brilliant, Phil, just brilliant! I never knew about that, it being reported on the news. The irony must have sickened them. To have an actor inunciate every syllable of Shane's lyrics more clearly than he ever could ! Ha!And on News at ten !! A bigger audience than the Pogues ever would have !
I seem to remember it being on The Tube maybe ? But the final credits of the show cutting off the performance early ? Maybe not, but some other " live " show I'm sure.
On a different tack altogether; recently I got the " Pogue Mahone " album which has Spider, Jem, Andrew and Darryl plus three other musicians on it. I had 'til now not touched it with the proverbial barge-pole, having heard very poor things about it. It is fucking wonderful and a million times better than I could have hoped for. Brilliant, early Pogues type Irish tunes, rootsy cajun and Springsteen Seeger sessions country and some lighter " Fairytale..." moments make this a great listen. I urge ANY Pogues fan to do themsleves a big favour and pick this up. You won't regret it. I will say it is the best Pogues album since " .....Grace ". Seriously.

dsweeney wrote:Brilliant, Phil, just brilliant! I never knew about that, it being reported on the news. The irony must have sickened them. To have an actor inunciate every syllable of Shane's lyrics more clearly than he ever could ! Ha!And on News at ten !! A bigger audience than the Pogues ever would have !
I seem to remember it being on The Tube maybe ? But the final credits of the show cutting off the performance early ? Maybe not, but some other " live " show I'm sure.
On a different tack altogether; recently I got the " Pogue Mahone " album which has Spider, Jem, Andrew and Darryl plus three other musicians on it. I had 'til now not touched it with the proverbial barge-pole, having heard very poor things about it. It is fucking wonderful and a million times better than I could have hoped for. Brilliant, early Pogues type Irish tunes, rootsy cajun and Springsteen Seeger sessions country and some lighter " Fairytale..." moments make this a great listen. I urge ANY Pogues fan to do themsleves a big favour and pick this up. You won't regret it. I will say it is the best Pogues album since " .....Grace ". Seriously.

I have a soft spot for Pogue Mahone myself, though I think the demos are better than the album itself.

Jaysis, didn't think of that, must play them when I get in later. I know " When the ship comes in " is on the box-set and at first liked it better than the album version but now I don't know, the official release is better played I think but still very raw and fresh. I hope you included any demos in the box-set. I checked and the only other ones on it are " Livin' in a world without her ", " The sun and the moon " and " Four o'clock in the morning ".

dsweeney wrote:Brilliant, Phil, just brilliant! I never knew about that, it being reported on the news. The irony must have sickened them. To have an actor inunciate every syllable of Shane's lyrics more clearly than he ever could ! Ha!And on News at ten !! A bigger audience than the Pogues ever would have !
I seem to remember it being on The Tube maybe ? But the final credits of the show cutting off the performance early ? Maybe not, but some other " live " show I'm sure.

It was on Friday Night Live, there is a clip of it on youtube along with details of the IBA ban on the song, if you go to about 4:20 there is a clip from the newsnight show where the lyrics were read out by an actor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbcsOzmVmy0

Cheers for that Smoz, brilliant. Hadn't seen it before. The Steve Cooogan bit where he has to disguise his voice is f**kin' hilarious and illustrates brilliantly the sheer idiocy of the whole thing. You could see Sinn Fein and read their words but not hear their voices !!
The thing I can't get with the IBA ban though is this; was almost every single Wolfe Tones song banned from the British airwaves as well or what ? If it was banned purely for having anti British Establishment views then God knows how many more were, or should have been banned. Was " Give Ireland back to the Irish " by Paul Mcartney banned or is that an urban myth ? Anybody ?

dsweeney wrote:Cheers for that Smoz, brilliant. Hadn't seen it before. The Steve Cooogan bit where he has to disguise his voice is f**kin' hilarious and illustrates brilliantly the sheer idiocy of the whole thing. You could see Sinn Fein and read their words but not hear their voices !!
The thing I can't get with the IBA ban though is this; was almost every single Wolfe Tones song banned from the British airwaves as well or what ? If it was banned purely for having anti British Establishment views then God knows how many more were, or should have been banned. Was " Give Ireland back to the Irish " by Paul Mcartney banned or is that an urban myth ? Anybody ?

The McCartney record was indeed subject to a blanket BBC ban in 1972. I remember, when listening to the rundown of the new weekly Top 40 on Radio 1, which was at lunchtime on Tuesdays back then, it had to be announced as "up to number 12 (or whatever) is a record by the group Wings", the very title itself considered unmentionable. McCartney's response to the ban was to ensure that the next "record by the group Wings" was entitled "Mary Had A Little Lamb". Seriously.

The Dubliners and the Wolfe Tones were both subject to the late-80s ban which, if nothing else, displayed indiscriminate taste on the part of the powers that be.

However, as witness the ban on "Fairytale of New York" a couple of years ago [for about ten minutes, after Kirsty's mum had read them the riot act] although the BBC had aired it lovingly for 20 years, indicated that we are not dealing with rational or consistent people here.

The " Fairytale..." ban was ridiculous even by their own standards. As you say, to play it constantly for over 20 years only to then censor it is crazy. I can only assume that somebody, after all this time, heard the lyrics and took offense and informed the IBA.
I'm reminded of course of the whole " Never mind the bollocks " debacle way back when. The word was shown to be a perfectly legitimate english word, used apparently to describe the nonsense spoken by the clegy and could not be deemed offensive. The title then meant, "never mind the nonsense, here's.... which is of course what the band meant. Any " offense " was in the mind of the reader.

philipchevron wrote:However, as witness the ban on "Fairytale of New York" a couple of years ago [for about ten minutes, after Kirsty's mum had read them the riot act]

Good for Jean!

philipchevron wrote:

dsweeney wrote:Cheers for that Smoz, brilliant. Hadn't seen it before. The Steve Cooogan bit where he has to disguise his voice is f**kin' hilarious and illustrates brilliantly the sheer idiocy of the whole thing. You could see Sinn Fein and read their words but not hear their voices !!
The thing I can't get with the IBA ban though is this; was almost every single Wolfe Tones song banned from the British airwaves as well or what ? If it was banned purely for having anti British Establishment views then God knows how many more were, or should have been banned. Was " Give Ireland back to the Irish " by Paul Mcartney banned or is that an urban myth ? Anybody ?

The McCartney record was indeed subject to a blanket BBC ban in 1972. I remember, when listening to the rundown of the new weekly Top 40 on Radio 1, which was at lunchtime on Tuesdays back then, it had to be announced as "up to number 12 (or whatever) is a record by the group Wings", the very title itself considered unmentionable. McCartney's response to the ban was to ensure that the next "record by the group Wings" was entitled "Mary Had A Little Lamb". Seriously.

The Dubliners and the Wolfe Tones were both subject to the late-80s ban which, if nothing else, displayed indiscriminate taste on the part of the powers that be.

However, as witness the ban on "Fairytale of New York" a couple of years ago [for about ten minutes, after Kirsty's mum had read them the riot act] although the BBC had aired it lovingly for 20 years, indicated that we are not dealing with rational or consistent people here.

Is this a pop at the Tones Phil or are you simply saying the Dubliners were lumped in with all other rebel/ Irish ballad groups ?
I hope it isn't because there is a dreadful snobbery in this country about the Wolfe Tones. Yes, the 'RA thing can get a bit out of hand at times but it is far from all they do. By a LONG chalk. Instrumentals, jigs, reels,ballads, you name it. In fact I would say they have a back catalogue that rivals anything in Irish Folk music. And, BTW, even though I wasn't there, the formative Pogue Mahone were known to play more than a few rebel songs, I believe.

I was thinking about buying this new compilation as a birthday present for a friend who likes Flogging Molly and Dropkick Murphys but has never heard of the Pogues...well then I showed him a few videos on youtube such as "If I Should..." and he said "Yeah they are cool..." but overall he wasn't really interested....what a shame...Myself I don't like DKM and Flogging Molly and all the rest of them because they've got nothing on the Pogues....but whatever....everybody's got his/her own taste, even if it's really dodgy at times....

Totally with you there In the morning. The thing with say the DM's is that they are actually a rock or a punk band playing Irish melodies with their electric guitars etc. Whereas the Pogues were a full blown acoustic, folk, trad ceilidh band and came across as much more authentic and different and original.
Flogging Molly, from what I've heard are ok but just that, ok. The thing of course that none of these bands, or ANY band for that matter, have is the talent of Shane Lysaght MacGowan. A writer of songs that will be played long after he has left the building for the 24 hour bar in the sky. Songs that will become the " traditional " songs of their day. " Brown eyes..." " Sally..." " Streams..." " Fairytale..." Broad majestic..." " A rainy night..." and many more will be passed down for years to come.

dsweeney wrote:Totally with you there In the morning. The thing with say the DM's is that they are actually a rock or a punk band playing Irish melodies with their electric guitars etc. Whereas the Pogues were a full blown acoustic, folk, trad ceilidh band and came across as much more authentic and different and original.
Flogging Molly, from what I've heard are ok but just that, ok. The thing of course that none of these bands, or ANY band for that matter, have is the talent of Shane Lysaght MacGowan. A writer of songs that will be played long after he has left the building for the 24 hour bar in the sky. Songs that will become the " traditional " songs of their day. " Brown eyes..." " Sally..." " Streams..." " Fairytale..." Broad majestic..." " A rainy night..." and many more will be passed down for years to come.

EXACTLY my point of view. I mean DKM and FM and the Tossers a.s.o....might be good in what they are doing and it would be fun to see them in concert with plenty of beer and all the rest of it...

but the Pogues are something that can't be described or labelled, they are soo huge in terms of being creative, inventive, original and refreshing and just overall brilliant and magic still 28 years after they played their first gig (which was quite a mess as I read in Clerk's book ).

They really can't be compared to bands such as DKM or FM...as you said or rather wrote, Shane's and some of the other bandmember's songs (Thousands are Sailing by the mighty Philip Chevron, or some pearls by Jem Finer and Terry Woods) will go down history as classic songs which will be sung in a few hundred years by people who appreciate good, honest and real music. Can't wait for Münster!

It's difficult for me to explain how important the Pogues are to me and people of my generation. When I was young, " Irish " music or ballads etc. was something your granny listened to or was sang at funerals and parties or " hooleys " as they were called. It was half heard, half remembered songs from when you were a kid or learned at school.
Then punk rock happened and suddenly I found something that was mine.Or OURS !! Over the years I learned a bit of guitar so the usual rock/ metal thing was part of my oeuvre. Then I heard the Pogues. I mean REALLY heard them. And a whole new vista opened up, a whole new musical landscape. Brilliant melodies, heartfelt lyrics, passionate music and SONGS, not guitar riffs !! Fuckin' songs ! ! But with the energy and abrasiveness of any punk band.
Irish people around my age, when they would first hear the Pogues would sort of look at each other and go, " ooooh, oh yeah, oookaaaayy, I see what's going on here " as the music they heard years ago suddenly meant something to them.You couldn't help opening a bottle and cheering. And they're still here !! God bless 'em one and all. Now for an album of new recordings.

dsweeney wrote:It's difficult for me to explain how important the Pogues are to me and people of my generation. When I was young, " Irish " music or ballads etc. was something your granny listened to or was sang at funerals and parties or " hooleys " as they were called. It was half heard, half remembered songs from when you were a kid or learned at school.
Then punk rock happened and suddenly I found something that was mine.Or OURS !! Over the years I learned a bit of guitar so the usual rock/ metal thing was part of my oeuvre. Then I heard the Pogues. I mean REALLY heard them. And a whole new vista opened up, a whole new musical landscape. Brilliant melodies, heartfelt lyrics, passionate music and SONGS, not guitar riffs !! Fuckin' songs ! ! But with the energy and abrasiveness of any punk band.
Irish people around my age, when they would first hear the Pogues would sort of look at each other and go, " ooooh, oh yeah, oookaaaayy, I see what's going on here " as the music they heard years ago suddenly meant something to them.You couldn't help opening a bottle and cheering. And they're still here !! God bless 'em one and all. Now for an album of new recordings.

well said, Mr. or Ms. Sweeney

Thanks Mr. or Ms. Murray.

MR. D.Sweeney.