by philipchevron Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:40 pm
Kilmichael wrote:Just wondering, especially after all those old tapes were unearthed for the wonderful box set, what the earliest Pogues recordings in existence are? The Lost Decade mentions a demo recorded on 4-track at Justin Ward's flat in I think Nov 1982, but that the bass & drums didn't transfer properly. Does anyone know if this still exists? Any ideas as to the earliest live tracks? (I'm asking if 'anyone' knows, but of course hoping the sublime Mr C might answer. We really should club together to build a statue of the man).
I look hideous in cement and/or bronze, but thanks for the thought.
My guess is the recordings mentioned in Ann Scanlon's book must be the demos which begin Disc 2 on the box set, also recorded at Justin Ward's flat, as the dates are only slightly out. We guesstimated them at early 1983, which wasn't so bad. I'm not sure about the bass and drums not "transferring" properly, but I do know myself and Jem Finer felt the mixes left a great deal to be desired, which is why we assigned Nick Robbins and Rob Keyloch to do new mixes of them in 2007, and it is these you hear on Disc Two.
It should further be noted that it is the Justin Ward version of "Streams of Whiskey" which turns up as the soundtrack to the "Streams of Whiskey" video on
Poguevision, in its original mix, obviously. So a comparison can be made, at least with this song, between the 1982/1983 mix and the 2007 remix on the Box Set.
In any event, I'm almost certain these are the first Pogues recordings, or at least the first extant ones - there is some debate in-band as to whether there was a previous session with Justin Ward (perhaps even November 2002?). However, I do know that Phil Gaston made an extremely painful-sounding New Republicans cassette recording before that, but it's too unlistenable even for reasons of historic or curiosity value. I nixed the New Republicans (also known as The Noisy Boysies) recordings from the box set early on and made the decision that nothing featuring less than the six original Pogues would be up for consideration.
On the matter of live recordings, I may be wrong, but I've always understood the 100 Club, 1983, to be the first recorded Pogues live gig. Stan Brennan supplied me with the original tape of this but, after some deliberation, I realised that the vinyl bootleg 7" EP made of this many years ago was probably as good as would ever be rendered from that recording, so I let it go. As it happens, the earliest live recordings which actually made it as far as the box set, from Sweden in 1985 ("Waxies Dargle"/"Navigator"), are of the line-up in which I replaced Jem as banjo player, but this was more by accident than design. I felt inclined, ultimately, that as I could find no unexpectedly worthy recordings of "The Holy Ground", "Don't It Make My Brown Eyes Blue", "Me and Bobby McGee" or "King of the Bop" on the early Pogues live tapes, to just bypass them altogether. It's not as if the early shows have not been adequately exploited by the bootleggers over the years.
[quote="Kilmichael"]Just wondering, especially after all those old tapes were unearthed for the wonderful box set, what the earliest Pogues recordings in existence are? The Lost Decade mentions a demo recorded on 4-track at Justin Ward's flat in I think Nov 1982, but that the bass & drums didn't transfer properly. Does anyone know if this still exists? Any ideas as to the earliest live tracks? (I'm asking if 'anyone' knows, but of course hoping the sublime Mr C might answer. We really should club together to build a statue of the man).[/quote]
I look hideous in cement and/or bronze, but thanks for the thought.
My guess is the recordings mentioned in Ann Scanlon's book must be the demos which begin Disc 2 on the box set, also recorded at Justin Ward's flat, as the dates are only slightly out. We guesstimated them at early 1983, which wasn't so bad. I'm not sure about the bass and drums not "transferring" properly, but I do know myself and Jem Finer felt the mixes left a great deal to be desired, which is why we assigned Nick Robbins and Rob Keyloch to do new mixes of them in 2007, and it is these you hear on Disc Two.
It should further be noted that it is the Justin Ward version of "Streams of Whiskey" which turns up as the soundtrack to the "Streams of Whiskey" video on [i]Poguevision[/i], in its original mix, obviously. So a comparison can be made, at least with this song, between the 1982/1983 mix and the 2007 remix on the Box Set.
In any event, I'm almost certain these are the first Pogues recordings, or at least the first extant ones - there is some debate in-band as to whether there was a previous session with Justin Ward (perhaps even November 2002?). However, I do know that Phil Gaston made an extremely painful-sounding New Republicans cassette recording before that, but it's too unlistenable even for reasons of historic or curiosity value. I nixed the New Republicans (also known as The Noisy Boysies) recordings from the box set early on and made the decision that nothing featuring less than the six original Pogues would be up for consideration.
On the matter of live recordings, I may be wrong, but I've always understood the 100 Club, 1983, to be the first recorded Pogues live gig. Stan Brennan supplied me with the original tape of this but, after some deliberation, I realised that the vinyl bootleg 7" EP made of this many years ago was probably as good as would ever be rendered from that recording, so I let it go. As it happens, the earliest live recordings which actually made it as far as the box set, from Sweden in 1985 ("Waxies Dargle"/"Navigator"), are of the line-up in which I replaced Jem as banjo player, but this was more by accident than design. I felt inclined, ultimately, that as I could find no unexpectedly worthy recordings of "The Holy Ground", "Don't It Make My Brown Eyes Blue", "Me and Bobby McGee" or "King of the Bop" on the early Pogues live tapes, to just bypass them altogether. It's not as if the early shows have not been adequately exploited by the bootleggers over the years.
